From xod@thestonecutters.net Tue Jul 29 11:40:27 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66484 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2003 18:40:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2003 18:40:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2003 18:40:27 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19hZOd-0006SH-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:40:27 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hZOL-0006Rw-00; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:40:09 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hZOC-0006RW-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:40:00 -0700 Received: from granite.thestonecutters.net (localhost.thestonecutters.net [127.0.0.1]) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6TIZvVH002205 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:35:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h6TIZv8W002202 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:35:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) X-Authentication-Warning: granite.thestonecutters.net: xod owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:35:57 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: le du In-Reply-To: <20030729181125.47621.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030729143339.G95597-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 6000 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20482 On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > > It is certainly true that anything is the same as something (namely > > >itself), but doesn't this violate Gricean relevance? The fact that > > >whatever it is is identical to something/itself may be true, but is > > >generally not relevant to whatever we're talking about. > > Is there any brivla with even less content that will do instead? We are > using {du} to get the specificity content of {le} without any additional > semantic content from the brivla. The fact that "le du" is being used instead of ko'a or ra indicates in the spirit of cooperation that it is not only different but better than the obvious choices. But we haven't heard any such justifications yet. Without any, it remains verbose and to be avoided. -- The Pentagon group believed it had a visionary strategy that would transform Iraq into an ally of Israel, remove a potential threat to the Persian Gulf oil trade and encircle Iran with U.S. friends and allies...