From grey.havens@free.fr Sun Aug 24 06:41:51 2003
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Subject: Question about moi and its explanation in 'What is Lojban?'
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:41:39 +0200
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Hi,

        I  was browsing through the  'What is Lojban?' sections lately
        when I found the following :

          'mi papamoi tavla do'
          -> 'I am the 11th talker to you'

        If I  remember  my Lojban  lessons  correctly, this  gloss  is
        wrong, because 'mi papamoi  tavla do' is  equivalent to 'mi do
        papamoi tavla' or  'do mi papamoi  se  tavla', which all  mean
        something like :

            "you and I are  both involved in a 11th tavla-relationship
            where I am the talker and you the listener".

        which cannot, IMHO, be interpreted as :

            "you're my 11th listener"
=20
        but instead as:

            "having  been     10   previous  talkings,    we're   both
            participating in the 11th".



        A studious Lojban  learner  probably can make  the  difference
        after some work with the  language. At which point the initial
        wrongness of the gloss in 'What is Lojban?' can be observed as
        a forgivable error  to make the  gloss more easy to comprehend
        for a beginner (this is what I'm thinking).


        Now, the question is, how can one express the meaning of "I am
        the 11th talker to you" in Lojban ? Precisely, a sentence that
        states that "you  being the listener for  at least 11 times, I
        am in charge of talking the 11th" ?

        I tend to favor:

           mi papamoi tavla be do

        However, I'm  not sure that  sentence  conveys the meaning I'm
        looking for. What do you think ?

Regards,=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

--=20
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