From phma@webjockey.net Fri Aug 01 04:59:47 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79385 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2003 11:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2003 11:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2003 11:59:47 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19iYZW-0002TR-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 04:59:46 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19iYZ8-0002Ss-00; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 04:59:22 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 01 Aug 2003 04:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-150-110-21-adsl.precisionet.net ([208.150.110.21] helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19iYYZ-0002SJ-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 04:58:47 -0700 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 47A122C35; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:58:06 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: caplisri le kutzdani la ser.artyr.conan.dail. Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 07:58:05 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030801051712.51414.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030801051712.51414.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200308010758.05677.phma@webjockey.net> X-archive-position: 6024 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@webjockey.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@webjockey.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20506 On Friday 01 August 2003 01:17, Eric Sumner wrote: > I have started translating Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's "The Adventure of the > Empty House". I have translated the first three sentences off of the > version at Project Gutenberg. I find it interesting that my translations > are approximately the same length as the original, which has not been the > case with any of the other translations I have attempted. From this, I can > conclude one of three things: I am getting better at this, or I am missing > some huge piece, or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle uses lots of big words. I'd > like to believe the first possibility, but the last one is most probable. > > Here, I have put the original text in quotes, the translated text in > braces, and any comments or questions I had about the translation as was > making it afterwards. I would appreciate any comments that you have. > > -- .eryk. > > "It was in the spring of the year 1894 that all London was interested, and > the fashionable world dismayed, by the murder of the Honourable Ronald > Adair under most unusual and inexplicable circumstances." > > {seti'u lenu vensa li pabisovo kei selcinri fa ro le prenu poi nenri la > london. gi'e mlibadri fa le jikca prenu selcmima vau lenu tcini lenu catra > la .anyrabyl.ranyld.ader. kei kei noi cizra .e na'e selciski} > > * Should a person's title be considered part of their name? > * Honourable should probably be translated for meaning rather than sound, > but I was lazy. I'd find out what it means in that culture and translate accordingly. If it means that he was a judge, I'd say {si'apajn}. > * {na'e selciski} = unexplained != inexplicable nalselckika'e. {ciski} should be {ciksi}. > * I have no idea how to translate dismay, so I translated it as > {mlibadri}=mildly sad. > * There's a lot of nested stuff in there, and I'm not sure I got all of the > terminators that I need in there. {li pabisovo} should be {le pabisovomoi nanca}. {ti'u} should be {de'i}, and I don't think the {nu} is necessary. lo selcmima is a set, and sets can't be dismayed. ("Set" in the mathematical sense is {zilcmi}; the empty set na selcmi.) For "fashionable", I'd make a lujvo with {jadni}; {jicka} means "socialize", and even poor people socialize. {catra} I think should be {zercatra}. {cizra .e na'e selciksi} doesn't parse; you want {gi'e}. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > "The public has already learned those particulars of the crime which came > out in the police investigation, but a good deal was suppressed upon that > occasion, since the case for the prosecution was so overwhelmingly strong > that it was not necessary to bring forward all the facts." > > {.i so'a le prenu sanji da poi datni le zekri lenu le pulji sisku le > velji'i kei .iku'i piso'e le datni selmipri seti'u lenu go'i kei .i lenu > go'i kei selmukti ka ka le velji'i tsali kei na'e mukti lenu jarco piro le > velji'i kei kei} > > * I don't know if {lenu go'i kei} is valid. > * The logic may not be expressed properly > * I don't know if I need to use {piro le velji'i} or {le piro velji'i} The first line doesn't parse. I think you were trying to say {.i so'a le prenu cu sanji}, but I'm not sure what you meant by the rest. I think you mean {cilre}: {lei prenu mo'u cilre lei gubni tcila le zekri le pulji nunsisku}. For "prosecution", which here means not the act or process of the case but the party who started the case, I suggest {pairgunta}: x1 prosecutes x2 (defendant) with objective x3. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > "Only now, at the end of nearly ten years, am I allowed to supply those > missing links which make up the whole of that remarkable chain." > > {.i da poi temci lenu go'i kei le cabna cu nanca li ji'ipano .i ca curmi > lenu mi dunda de poi na'e zvati pagbu le linsi noi selmanci kei} > > * Is there a better way to deal with these times? {ca le mo'u nanca be li panoji'ima'u cu ca curmi le nu mi sabji le selcau spisa poi mulri'a le selmanci linsi} mu'omi'e pier. -- .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga .icu'u la ma'atman.