From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Tue Sep 30 18:28:06 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68238 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 01:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2003 01:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 01:28:05 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Vmf-0000Zg-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:28:05 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4VmA-0000ZA-00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:27:34 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lmsmtp03.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.113]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Vly-0000Yj-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:27:22 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-68-7.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.68.7]) by lmsmtp03.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 418DA3CF09 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:26:47 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <001b01c387bb$14a1fba0$82e0fea9@oemcomputer> To: References: <20030930134639.GB1691@mit.edu> <00aa01c387a7$e6badd00$42e1fea9@oemcomputer> <20031001001002.GA4355@mit.edu> Subject: [lojban] Re: Trying to follow XXS Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 02:26:41 +0100 Organization: Livagian Consulate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 6337 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20819 Rob: > On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 11:47:06PM +0100, And Rosta wrote: > > 'Fuzzy collectives' are handled by lV. That leaves lVi semantically vacant. > > At the same time, there is no easy way to say "The things that are each > > broda are jointly but not separately brode", so one suggestion is to use > > lVi for this purpose. (Personally, though, I think it would be nicer to > > generalize the notion of 'set' ever so slightly, so that lV'i would cover > > this.) > > Okay, I understand. But masses and mathematical sets should not be > combined. Mathematical sets don't walk or talk or carry pianos; they > have members and that's about it. Nevertheless, they are useful in some > Lojban constructs, and when used correctly they make things > _exceedingly_ clear. Do we really need gadri specifically for mathematical sets, though, rather than for xod-collectives in general (i.e. jointly-but-not-separately)? > > IIRC, the change is from {me mi moi} to {mo'e mi moi} or {vei mo'e mi moi} > > or something like that. If {mi moi} were allowed, that'd be great, though. > > Argh. {vei mo'e mi moi} is a total loss. > > So yeah, this part sounds messy. I suggest keeping it separate from XXS. > The less stuff that is tacked on, the more likely it is that people will > at least consider supporting XXS. Definitely. That page is still a discussion page, not least because there are still unresolved issues with XXS (viz, what lVi means). Any version that is put forward to the community for approval would be cleaned up and pared down. --And.