From xod@thestonecutters.net Tue Sep 30 07:34:46 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83378 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 14:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2003 14:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 14:34:42 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 1A4LaL-0001QN-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:34:41 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4LZu-0001Pu-00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:34:14 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4LZY-0001PZ-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:33:52 -0700 Received: from granite.thestonecutters.net (localhost.thestonecutters.net [127.0.0.1]) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8UET0qZ072610 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:29:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h8UET0XU072607 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:29:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) X-Authentication-Warning: granite.thestonecutters.net: xod owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:29:00 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Trying to follow XXS In-Reply-To: <20030930134639.GB1691@mit.edu> Message-ID: <20030930102827.L72459-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 6323 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20805 I believe that Robin explicitly migrated to Tiki because it allows true forum discussions based on wiki pages. On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Rob Speer wrote: > As someone who hasn't been part of the involved jboske discussions, I > find XXS to be a very pleasing gadri system. In general, I like the idea > of changing the meaning of {lo PA} and letting the other gadri keep > something like their original meanings. > > (See > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=XXS:%20Extended%20XS%20proposal > for what I'm referring to.) > > However, some things strike me as bafflingly odd about it. I'd mention > this on the Wiki, but there's already such a teeming mass of commentary > around all the proposed gadri systems (and, as far as I can tell, rather > limited RecentChanges functionality on Tiki) that any new comments would > be lost in the mess. > > * What's all this about xod-collectives? Is there some reason that lVi > should be this construct instead of the usual fuzzy collective? > * Why is alternative B there? If you want to make a distributive > into a collective, you should just use {lu'o}, not rearrange the > meanings of several cmavo to make way for your new word that does this. > I'm no conservative, but that's an absurd amount of tinkering. > * What's with the change to MOI tacked on? It seems like a good idea if > I understand it correctly (let {memimoi} be just {mimoi}), but what does > it have to do with gadri? Shouldn't it be a separate issue? > > -- Economic power is exercised by means of a positive, by offering men a reward, an incentive, a payment, a value; political power is exercised by means of a negative, by the threat of punishment, injury, imprisonment, destruction. The businessman's tool is values; the bureaucrat's tool is fear.