From xod@thestonecutters.net Thu Oct 30 10:58:58 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AFI0C-0003dY-JA for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:58:36 -0800 Received: from granite.thestonecutters.net (localhost.thestonecutters.net [127.0.0.1]) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9UIrhV4064944 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:53:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h9UIrg49064941 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:53:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) X-Authentication-Warning: granite.thestonecutters.net: xod owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:53:42 -0500 (EST) From: Invent Yourself To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: two concepts I haven't found any helpful translation In-Reply-To: <20031030181725.GO21751@digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: <20031030134542.I64635-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 6527 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 12:04:27PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 10:53:53AM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > > > On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 11:09:48PM +0100, Llu'is Batlle i > > > > > Rossell wrote: > > > > > > They are 'hardware' and 'software'. Any clue? > > > > > > > > > > >From http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl > > > > > > > > > > samru'e, samselpla and sampla for "program". Apparently I > > > > > didn't do glosses for software. > > > > > > > > > > For hardware, what's wrong with minji? > > > > > > > > > > mutmi'i, IMO, is ass. > > > > On the other hand, it occurred to me that software is still > > software even if it's not being run. Is that true of pruce? > > Probably not, but it is of samselpla. > > > If a piece of software is never ever executed, what is "process" > > about it? > > If a piece of software is *never* executed, what is "software" about > it? > > > Either way, it's a metaphor. Strictly, software is nothing but > > software. But we can liken it to a process (when it's excuted), a > > contraption built using code as a building material, or as an > > algorithm or schema, or as a responsive intelligence, or as a work > > of literature, or as a mathematical entity like a theorem, or as a > > single number, or as a human experience. > > At least two of those are, to me, so poetic as to be communicatively > useless. > > > The machine analogy bears the most fruit from the perspective of > > social relations, usage, and intent. Pieces of software are like > > machines in terms of their design by specialists, their mass > > production and marketing by corporations, their function as > > capital and also as consumer goods. Mechanical logic is > > historically being replaced by digital logic. > > That's nice. The place structure sucks for most sentences talking > about software, IMO. The difference between platu and minji, in place structure, is only the creator. cabra is also a contender, but it seems more restricted, seeming requiring constant human control. -- Implicit in the term "national defense" is the notion of defending those values and ideals which set this Nation apart. United States Supreme Court, U.S. v. Robel (1967)