From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Tue Oct 07 13:09:28 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95359 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 20:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2003 20:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 20:09:27 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A6y98-0003RN-Bk for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:09:26 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A6y8T-0003QJ-8D; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:08:45 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web41901.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.152]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A6y82-0003PO-0n for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:08:18 -0700 Message-ID: <20031007193634.27576.qmail@web41901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.49.74.2] by web41901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 12:36:34 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lojban] Re: consolation To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 6373 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Jorge "Llambías" Reply-To: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142311107 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20855 --- Martin Bays wrote: > So what brivla unambiguously corresponds to mo'u, in the way sisti does to > co'u? Let's see. {mulno} is not problematic when the x1 involves a change of state. {le nu klama cu mulno} says that the going is complete, i.e. that the goer has reached the destination. Similarly {le nu binxo cu mulno} and {le nu zbasu cu mulno} are clear. The problem appears when x1 is a state. Does {le nu mi gleki cu mulno} mean that my happiness is complete, or that I'm no longer happy? States don't have a temporal completion point, so a state is complete when it is in some sense saturated, if I could not be happier then my happiness is complete. That is what I take {mulno} to mean when x1 is a state. Now, as to {co'u} and {mo'u}. {sisti} does not quite correspond to {co'u}, because it has an x1. The correspondence would be co'a-cfari, co'u-tolcfa mi co'a gleki -- le nu mi gleki cu cfari mi co'u gleki -- le nu mi gleki cu tolcfa {mulno} does not describe a change, so it corresponds to {ba'o} rather than to {mo'u}, for events that involve changes: mi ba'o klama le zarci -- le nu mi klama le zarci cu mulno {mo'u} corresponds (for change events) to {mulbi'o}: mi mo'u klama le zarci -- le nu mi klama le zarci cu mulbi'o States don't have a natural ending point, so {mi mo'u gleki} is not that meaningful. I wouldn't mind interpreting it as "I achieve complete happiness", though. mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com