From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Tue Oct 14 13:45:15 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86722 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2003 20:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2003 20:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 20:45:14 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A9W2b-0004wB-Q6 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:45:13 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A9W1w-0004vh-QF; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:44:32 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web41906.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A9W1a-0004vE-TG for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:44:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20031014204208.83033.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.49.74.2] by web41906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:42:08 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lojban] Re: Bach-Peters sentences To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <200310111404.08187.phma@webjockey.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 6437 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Jorge "Llambías" Reply-To: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142311107 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20918 --- Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Saturday 11 October 2003 09:16, And Rosta wrote: > > John, on another list: > > > Then there are Bach-Peters sentences, like "The pilot that shot at it > > > hit the MIG that chased him", where looking for the referents of "it" > > > and "him" sends you in a closed circle.... > > > > So: How to translate into Lojban? With the same referential loop? > > le vijysazri poi celre'o fi [?] cu darxi le me my.ibugy. poi jersi ra > Not obvious what "[?]" should be. There is no pronoun that refers to a > postcedent sumti, as {ra, ri, ru} refer to an antecedent. {la'edi'e} might > work, but {di'e} etc. usually refer to at least a clause, so the pilot shot > at the event of the MIG chasing him, which makes no sense. le vijysazri poi celre'o fi vo'e cu darxi le me MIG poi jersi vo'a should work, I think. The problem appears if you try to resolve each {le} independently. If you resolve the two {le}s together, there is no problem. If we turn it into a universal quantification, instead of a specific, we get: ro vijysazri poi celre'o fi vo'e cu darxi ro me MIG poi jersi vo'a which I think must be resolved as: ro da poi vijysazri ku'o ro de poi me MIG zo'u ganai ge da celre'o fi de gi de jersi da gi da darxi de mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com