From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Oct 30 10:18:38 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62586 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 18:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Oct 2003 18:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 18:18:34 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1AFHNQ-0002ve-Lz for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:18:32 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AFHMj-0002ui-RO; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:17:49 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1AFHML-0002uN-TK for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:17:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:17:25 -0800 Subject: [lojban] Re: two concepts I haven't found any helpful translation Message-ID: <20031030181725.GO21751@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20031027173042.GF3490@digitalkingdom.org> <20031028113431.K6401-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031028113431.K6401-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-archive-position: 6526 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21007 On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 12:04:27PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 10:53:53AM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > > On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 11:09:48PM +0100, Llu'is Batlle i > > > > Rossell wrote: > > > > > They are 'hardware' and 'software'. Any clue? > > > > > > > > >From http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl > > > > > > > > samru'e, samselpla and sampla for "program". Apparently I > > > > didn't do glosses for software. > > > > > > > > For hardware, what's wrong with minji? > > > > > > > > mutmi'i, IMO, is ass. > > On the other hand, it occurred to me that software is still > software even if it's not being run. Is that true of pruce? Probably not, but it is of samselpla. > If a piece of software is never ever executed, what is "process" > about it? If a piece of software is *never* executed, what is "software" about it? > Either way, it's a metaphor. Strictly, software is nothing but > software. But we can liken it to a process (when it's excuted), a > contraption built using code as a building material, or as an > algorithm or schema, or as a responsive intelligence, or as a work > of literature, or as a mathematical entity like a theorem, or as a > single number, or as a human experience. At least two of those are, to me, so poetic as to be communicatively useless. > The machine analogy bears the most fruit from the perspective of > social relations, usage, and intent. Pieces of software are like > machines in terms of their design by specialists, their mass > production and marketing by corporations, their function as > capital and also as consumer goods. Mechanical logic is > historically being replaced by digital logic. That's nice. The place structure sucks for most sentences talking about software, IMO. -Robin -- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "Constant neocortex override is the only thing that stops us all from running out and eating all the cookies." -- Eliezer Yudkowsky http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui