From xod@thestonecutters.net Wed Oct 08 10:55:12 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63865 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 17:55:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2003 17:55:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 17:55:12 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A7IWl-0003zi-7n for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:55:11 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7IWO-0003yn-SO; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:54:48 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7IWC-0003xz-Vg for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:54:37 -0700 Received: from granite.thestonecutters.net (localhost.thestonecutters.net [127.0.0.1]) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h98Hni2v019676 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:49:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h98Hni60019673 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:49:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) X-Authentication-Warning: granite.thestonecutters.net: xod owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:49:44 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Language evolution In-Reply-To: <20031008173533.GO8393@digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: <20031008133441.W15632-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 6386 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20868 On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 08:08:58PM -0400, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 05:01:35PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > A language that conveyed all information unambiguously, say Ferrer > > > > i Cancho and Sol?, would have a separate word for every thing, > > > > concept or action it referred to. Such a language would be > > > > formidably complicated for the speaker: the green of grass, for > > > > example, would be represented by a totally different word to the > > > > green of sea, an emerald or an oak leaf. > > > > > > Sorry. If I had read this paragraph before I sent it here, I > > > wouldn't have bothered. > > > > ma naldrani > > le sidbo be le nu le cimni bangu cu sarcu le ka satci fancu fo tu'a lo kampabdu'i .enai lo kamsarcu .i va'i satci ma > > .i le ni sinxa cu tolpabdu'i le jei satci > > "tolpabdu'i" ?= inversely proportional? > > If so, I don't think that means what you want it to mean, because > what you just said means "As the number of symbols increases, the > amount of truth decreases". le jei ko'a jetnu cu drata le jei ko'a satci .i zo ni mapti zo sinxa ni'i le du'u su'oreda sinxa .i ku'i zo jei mapti zo satci ni'i le du'u ckilu do'e li 0 do'e li 1 je'u le ni sinxa cu pabdu'i le jei lo sinxa cu satci -- Economic power is exercised by means of a positive, by offering men a reward, an incentive, a payment, a value; political power is exercised by means of a negative, by the threat of punishment, injury, imprisonment, destruction. The businessman's tool is values; the bureaucrat's tool is fear.