From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Oct 08 13:54:52 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11548 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 20:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2003 20:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 20:54:50 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A7LKb-00062q-5q for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:54:49 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7LK1-00062E-HK; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:54:13 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yuha.menta.net ([212.78.128.42]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7LJZ-00061r-Ja for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:45 -0700 Received: from gibson.menta.net ([212.78.128.22]) by yuha.menta.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HMGI3X02.ILD for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:55:09 +0200 Received: from vicerveza.atutiplen.net ([62.57.137.154]) by gibson.menta.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 gibson Mar 14 2002 21:29:48) with ESMTP id HMGI7F01.29H for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:57:15 +0200 Received: by vicerveza.atutiplen.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D373A98A3; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:52:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:52:10 +0200 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Language evolution Message-ID: <20031008205210.GB32403@vicerveza.menta.net> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20031008173533.GO8393@digitalkingdom.org> <20031008133441.W15632-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031008133441.W15632-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 6389 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: viric@vicerveza.homeunix.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Llu'is Batlle i Rossell From: Llu'is Batlle i Rossell Reply-To: viric@vicerveza.homeunix.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20871 On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 01:49:44PM -0400, Invent Yourself wrote: > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 08:08:58PM -0400, Invent Yourself wrote: > > > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 05:01:35PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > A language that conveyed all information unambiguously, say Ferrer > > > > > i Cancho and Sol?, would have a separate word for every thing, > > > > > concept or action it referred to. Such a language would be > > > > > formidably complicated for the speaker: the green of grass, for > > > > > example, would be represented by a totally different word to the > > > > > green of sea, an emerald or an oak leaf. > > > > > > > > Sorry. If I had read this paragraph before I sent it here, I > > > > wouldn't have bothered. > > > > > > ma naldrani > > > > le sidbo be le nu le cimni bangu cu sarcu le ka satci > > > fancu fo tu'a lo kampabdu'i .enai lo kamsarcu .i va'i satci ma .e'o ko cusku la'e di'u bau la .gliban. .i > > > > > > .i le ni sinxa cu tolpabdu'i le jei satci > > > > "tolpabdu'i" ?= inversely proportional? > > > > If so, I don't think that means what you want it to mean, because > > what you just said means "As the number of symbols increases, the > > amount of truth decreases". > > > le jei ko'a jetnu cu drata le jei ko'a satci .i zo ni mapti zo sinxa ni'i > le du'u su'oreda sinxa .i ku'i zo jei mapti zo satci ni'i le du'u ckilu > do'e li 0 do'e li 1 ki'a lu do'e li'u > > je'u le ni sinxa cu pabdu'i le jei lo sinxa cu satci > re le zo cu nenri di'u ni'i ma .i .u'a mi djica co cilre fo le bridi pe do ki'e -- "... el quid de la qüestió està en l'educació: en la filosofia didàctica, l'opció ignorància hauria d'existir: tu què vols ser? Jo, enginyer; jo, metge; jo, ignorant: és a dir, vull aprendre a viure però no vull saber-ho tot." -- Pau Riba, entrevista a "Paper de Vidre", núm. 5