From xod@thestonecutters.net Tue Oct 28 11:52:16 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91168 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 19:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2003 19:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 19:52:16 -0000 Received: from root by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1AEZsz-0002iO-Hq for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:52:13 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:09:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AEXLM-0007Zo-U1 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:09:21 -0800 Received: from granite.thestonecutters.net (localhost.thestonecutters.net [127.0.0.1]) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9SH4RV4007432 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:04:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h9SH4Rat007429 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:04:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) X-Authentication-Warning: granite.thestonecutters.net: xod owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:04:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [lojban] Re: two concepts I haven't found any helpful translation In-Reply-To: <20031027173042.GF3490@digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: <20031028113431.K6401-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 6506 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20999 On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 10:53:53AM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 11:09:48PM +0100, Llu'is Batlle i > > > Rossell wrote: > > > > They are 'hardware' and 'software'. Any clue? > > > > > > >From http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl > > > > > > samru'e, samselpla and sampla for "program". Apparently I > > > didn't do glosses for software. > > > > > > For hardware, what's wrong with minji? > > > > > > mutmi'i, IMO, is ass. On the other hand, it occurred to me that software is still software even if it's not being run. Is that true of pruce? The English gloss is not precise (as to the noun-like or verb-like nature of x1), but the fact that pu'u is in nu is a clue that lopruce is event-like. But an argument in the other direction is that the definition could easily have included that x1 is an event, and it doesn't. If a piece of software is never ever executed, what is "process" about it? Either way, it's a metaphor. Strictly, software is nothing but software. But we can liken it to a process (when it's excuted), a contraption built using code as a building material, or as an algorithm or schema, or as a responsive intelligence, or as a work of literature, or as a mathematical entity like a theorem, or as a single number, or as a human experience. The machine analogy bears the most fruit from the perspective of social relations, usage, and intent. Pieces of software are like machines in terms of their design by specialists, their mass production and marketing by corporations, their function as capital and also as consumer goods. Mechanical logic is historically being replaced by digital logic. -- Implicit in the term "national defense" is the notion of defending those values and ideals which set this Nation apart. United States Supreme Court, U.S. v. Robel (1967)