From xod@thestonecutters.net Tue Oct 07 07:39:43 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25785 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 14:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2003 14:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 14:39:42 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A6t01-0006k7-JV for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:39:41 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A6szK-0006jP-L8; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:38:58 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A6syx-0006ih-RJ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:38:35 -0700 Received: from granite.thestonecutters.net (localhost.thestonecutters.net [127.0.0.1]) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97EXh2v089527 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:33:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h97EXh6T089524 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:33:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) X-Authentication-Warning: granite.thestonecutters.net: xod owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:33:43 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Language evolution In-Reply-To: <20031007132042.GF29328@vicerveza.menta.net> Message-ID: <20031007103258.X89275-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 6355 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20837 On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Llu'is Batlle i Rossell wrote: > On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 08:08:58PM -0400, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 05:01:35PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > A language that conveyed all information unambiguously, say Ferrer > > > > i Cancho and Sol?, would have a separate word for every thing, > > > > concept or action it referred to. Such a language would be > > > > formidably complicated for the speaker: the green of grass, for > > > > example, would be represented by a totally different word to the > > > > green of sea, an emerald or an oak leaf. > > > > > > Sorry. If I had read this paragraph before I sent it here, I > > > wouldn't have bothered. > > > > > > > > ma naldrani .i le ni sinxa cu tolpabdu'i le jei satci > > > mi'e .ie > > Well, it seems to me that kind of language would only use "proper names"; I > mean, labels for each thing that happened in reality. And it would also be > impossible to talk about 'abstract' or mind-related concepts (or contepts > themselves). In fact, it should have as many words for abstract concepts as it does for types of green. -- Economic power is exercised by means of a positive, by offering men a reward, an incentive, a payment, a value; political power is exercised by means of a negative, by the threat of punishment, injury, imprisonment, destruction. The businessman's tool is values; the bureaucrat's tool is fear.