From phma@webjockey.net Sat Oct 11 11:05:38 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45474 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 18:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2003 18:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 18:05:38 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A8O7V-0005iz-7Q for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:05:37 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A8O6z-0005iT-PQ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:05:05 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-150-110-21-adsl.precisionet.net ([208.150.110.21] helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A8O6b-0005hw-CV for lojban-list@Lojban.Org; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:04:41 -0700 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 45DFF3A35; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:04:09 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis To: Subject: [lojban] Re: Bach-Peters sentences Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:04:07 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <002a01c38daf$93dd1a40$6401a8c0@leosmachine> <20031009125610.GI26776@mercury.ccil.org> <008301c3901b$312aa160$02e1fea9@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <008301c3901b$312aa160$02e1fea9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310111404.08187.phma@webjockey.net> X-archive-position: 6418 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@webjockey.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@webjockey.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20899 On Saturday 11 October 2003 09:16, And Rosta wrote: > John, on another list: > > Then there are Bach-Peters sentences, like "The pilot that shot at it > > hit the MIG that chased him", where looking for the referents of "it" > > and "him" sends you in a closed circle.... > > So: How to translate into Lojban? With the same referential loop? le vijysazri poi celre'o fi [?] cu darxi le me my.ibugy. poi jersi ra Not obvious what "[?]" should be. There is no pronoun that refers to a postcedent sumti, as {ra, ri, ru} refer to an antecedent. {la'edi'e} might work, but {di'e} etc. usually refer to at least a clause, so the pilot shot at the event of the MIG chasing him, which makes no sense. phma