From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Thu Nov 06 13:21:52 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82292 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2003 21:21:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2003 21:21:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2003 21:21:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1AHrZe-0007NX-Oz for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:21:50 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AHrZ5-0007MZ-03; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:21:15 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:21:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.156]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AHrYf-0007Lq-2r for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:20:49 -0800 Message-ID: <20031106212018.40000.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.69.6.35] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:20:18 PST Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:20:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [lojban] Re: Iberian v vs. b In-Reply-To: <20031106183007.GB3007@llimona.atutiplen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 6592 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com From: Jorge "Llambías" Reply-To: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142311107 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21073 --- Llu'is Batlle i Rossell wrote: > But xorxes noticed another problem: making "b" sound explosive. We only do > that > at the beginning of a word, or after a non-sounding consonant (maybe some > more > cases). Between vowels we pronounce what I call . Well, > catalan > papers about pronunciation use that nomenclature. I think it's called "approximant" in English. > It has the problem that that "b" isn't explosive, but it isn't fricative!! So > it's not a "v". We're very used at using , so we always > identify > it with "b" (supposing we're pronouncing "v" correctly"). > Maybe speakers of other languages find nearer to lojban "v" > than lojban "b". Yes, that's what I have found. > I think that catalan and spanish (at least) phenomena only occurs in "b"... > Anyway, the subject of this mail is "b" and "v". :) It happens with "d" and "g" as well, at least in Spanish, but that doesn't seem to be noticed so much. Perhaps because approximant d and g don't have in Lojban anything closer than the plosives to be confused with. If Lojban had an English voiced "th" sound, or a voiced counterpart to "x", that might have been a problem. mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree