From phma@webjockey.net Tue Nov 25 16:24:05 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85530 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2003 00:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2003 00:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blackcat.ixazon.lan) (208.150.110.21) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2003 00:23:59 -0000 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0368BAB95; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:23:56 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: bakyjba Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:23:56 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031125180200.GU9729@digitalkingdom.org> <3FC3CFC6.4030105@z.zgs.de> <20031125223829.GB26472@mercury.ccil.org> In-Reply-To: <20031125223829.GB26472@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311251923.56691.phma@webjockey.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 208.150.110.21 From: Pierre Abbat X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21276 On Tuesday 25 November 2003 17:38, John Cowan wrote: > klaus schmirler scripsit: > Right you are. Kronsbeere = Preiselbeere = _Vaccinium oxycoccus_, > which does grow in North America and is called "cranberry" in English, > although the N.A. commercial species is _V. macrocarpon_. But all > sources agree that "cranberry" < PlattD or Du. _kranbeere_ 'crane-berry' > (various spellings given). So is "cranberry" a type-3 fu'ivla? > Blueberries and blackberries are different. The blueberry is definitely > a N.A.-only species (_V. atrococcum), so its German name is probably > a calque. Blackberries are genus _Rubus_. The bil- in bilberry is > thought to be < ON, but I suspect this is grasping at straws. The blackberry (which is not a berry but an aggregate of drupelets) is a brambleberry, as is the raspberry (another type-3 in English - it has nothing to do with rasps, and is apparently derived from a word "raspis"). All brambleberries are frambesi in Lojban (the word is from the same origin as "bramble"), so again we have some distinctions to figure out. We could say {xunre frambesi} and {xekri frambesi}, but there are black raspberries, so maybe we have to call them {xekri frambesi be la xunre}. phma -- .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga .icu'u la ma'atman.