From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Nov 03 13:15:27 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37602 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2003 21:15:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2003 21:15:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 21:15:19 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1AGm2g-0005SK-Ns for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:15:18 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AGm1w-0005RK-NC; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:14:32 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:14:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from yuha.menta.net ([212.78.128.42]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AGm1S-0005Qn-Vb for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:14:03 -0800 Received: from gibson.menta.net ([212.78.128.22]) by yuha.menta.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HNSODZ02.F02 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:15:35 +0100 Received: from vicerveza.atutiplen.net ([62.57.139.16]) by gibson.menta.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 gibson Mar 14 2002 21:29:48) with ESMTP id HNSOH500.SYN for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:17:29 +0100 Received: by vicerveza.atutiplen.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7E907A414; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:20:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:20:14 +0100 Subject: [lojban] Re: Language creation Message-ID: <20031103212013.GA4004@vicerveza.menta.net> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20031103173450.GA3467@llimona.atutiplen.net> <20031103190501.GG28012@skunk.reutershealth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031103190501.GG28012@skunk.reutershealth.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 6550 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: viric@vicerveza.homeunix.net X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-From: Llu'is Batlle i Rossell From: Llu'is Batlle i Rossell Reply-To: viric@vicerveza.homeunix.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21031 On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 02:05:01PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: > Llu'is Batlle i Rossell scripsit: > > > As far as I know, "'" isn't a consonant like others in lojban alphabet. It's > > more like something helpful for joining vowels. Something like "y" for joining > > consonants. It has a sound associated, but that sound isn't as strong as a "x" > > or a "c" (or any other letter :). > > Exactly. I think a Spanish or a Catalan may have problems distinguishing "x" from "'". English uses the "'" sound a lot, and many Spanish (English Learners) tend to use "x" when speaking English. > > I'm lucky, because Catalan has almost all lojban phonemes, and each letter has > > a fixed sound (something like Spanish). I think it's easy for me to read or say > > anything in lojban. > > It's important not to alter the quality of unstressed vowels in Lojban; Lojban > vowels should be consistent whether stressed or unstressed (so in Spanish, > but not so in Catalan from what I understand). You're right; we specially do the same as in Russian with 'o' and 'a'. But most catalan speakers are very used to speak in Spanish. I certainly read 'lojban' as if I was reading a strange 'Spanish'; that's because I did thought about the unstressed vowels consistency. Hummmm some days ago I sent a message to the list about a reading of the first lines of 'tiki tiki tembos'. I'd pleased if I could receive any comment about my way of reading. Thanks! -- "... el quid de la qüestió està en l'educació: en la filosofia didàctica, l'opció ignorància hauria d'existir: tu què vols ser? Jo, enginyer; jo, metge; jo, ignorant: és a dir, vull aprendre a viure però no vull saber-ho tot." -- Pau Riba, entrevista a "Paper de Vidre", núm. 5