From cowan@ccil.org Thu Nov 06 05:07:13 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: cowan@mercury.ccil.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52097 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2003 13:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2003 13:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2003 13:07:12 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHjqu-000319-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:07:08 -0500 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:07:08 -0500 To: Jorge =?iso-8859-1?Q?Llamb=EDas?= Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: lluis's pronunciation Message-ID: <20031106130708.GE1461@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20031106124804.31680.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031106124804.31680.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=212516 X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21064 Jorge Llamb?as scripsit: > I hear a regular trilled "r". I tend to prefer the flap rather than the > trill for Lojban (Spanish "r" rather than "rr"). CLL lists the trill > first among the permitted variants, but it says that in the case of "r" > all of the variations are equally acceptable. Yes, as is true for most of the other letters. However, my understanding of Spanish phonology is that initial "r", though so written, is typically rendered as a trill: certainly there is no opposition in initial position between "r" and "rr". > I don't hear ".ubu" for the fifth letter though. It sounds like > ".obu" again, while the other "u"s sound fine to me. I heard that also. In addition, "se cmene" and "te smuni" sound like "ze jmene" and "te zmuni" to me. Fortunately, "jmene" and "zmuni" cannot exist, but "ze" for "se" is more serious. It's important not to obliterate voicing distinctions anywhere in Lojban. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful. --The Hobbit