From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Fri Dec 05 08:04:02 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71537 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 16:03:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2003 16:03:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 16:03:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1ASIQl-0001VD-Kh for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:03:47 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ASIQC-0001UY-Go; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:03:12 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.153]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ASIPu-0001UC-P7 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:02:54 -0800 Message-ID: <20031205160223.97797.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.49.74.2] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:02:23 PST Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:02:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [lojban] predict, foretell, foreknowledge, prognosis, anticipation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 6853 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 From: Jorge "Llambías" Reply-To: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142311107 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21335 How do we deal with these concepts in Lojban? The problem with lujvo based on {purci} or {balvi} is that they could go either way: is it the knowing that is in the past of the thing known, or the other way around? Does {purju'o} mean "x1 knows x2 about x3, which is in the past of the knowing" or "x1 knows x2 about x3, before it happens". Is it foreknowledge or knowledge of the past? And the same applies to {bavju'o}: is that after-knowledge, knowledge after the fact, or is it future-knowledge, knowledge of the future? We could adopt a convention, I suppose, or else look for something less ambiguous. One possibility is {lirju'o}, "early-know", but I'm not sure that really says the knowledge is before it happens. It seems it could also be soon after it started to happen. What about {dimju'o}?: "x1 destiny-knows x2 about x3", "x1 foresees that x2 is true about x3". Then {dimjungau} for "x1 foretells x3 about x4 to x2". Thoughts? mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/