From xod@thestonecutters.net Tue Jan 20 17:05:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83865 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2004 01:05:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2004 01:05:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2004 01:05:17 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.30) id 1Aj6o0-0004DK-En for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:05:16 -0800 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.30) id 1Aj6o0-0004Cq-84 for lojban-out@lojban.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:05:16 -0800 Resent-From: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:05:16 -0800 Resent-Message-ID: <20040121010516.GG14172@digitalkingdom.org> Resent-To: lojban-out@lojban.org Received: from dsl081-049-134.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([64.81.49.134] helo=chain.digitalkingdom.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1AfBsN-00076y-8H; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:41:35 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [63.251.19.112] (helo=chert.thestonecutters.net) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1AfBsF-00076n-6M for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:41:27 -0800 Received: from thestonecutters.net (h-68-167-67-3.NYCMNY83.dynamic.covad.net [68.167.67.3]) by chert.thestonecutters.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A9CA148007 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:39:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FFF9082.3030906@thestonecutters.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:41:22 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20040110015037.69155.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040110015037.69155.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 6961 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TITLE_EMPTY,MIME_HTML_ONLY autolearn=no version=2.61 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:05:16 -0800 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 From: xod Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net Subject: [lojban] Re: On not using du for is X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21471 > Jorge Llambi'as wrote: > > > --- And Rosta wrote: > > > > "ti du le mi patfu" is malglico only when the speaker intends > > the meaning "ti patfu mi". When the speaker genuinely intends > > the meaning "ti du le mi patfu", it is not malglico. The > > malgliconess comes simply from meaning X but saying Y, because Y > > more closely resembles the we X is expressed in English. > > Right. On the other hand, "ti du lo patfu be mi" is synonymous > with "ti patfu mi", as far as I can tell. .ienairu'e .i zo ti steci le smuni .iseni'ibo lo patfu du le patfu .i mi na jimpe fi le terfrica be lu ti patfu mi li'u goiko'a be'o zu'i goiko'e .i ko'a zukte simsa .i ko'e dacti simsa (verb-like, vs. noun-like). -- "American imperialism is, by definition, a retreat away from global capitalism, a retreat from the invisible hand of markets in favo