Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [63.251.19.112] (helo=chert.thestonecutters.net) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1AfBsF-00076n-6M for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:41:27 -0800 Received: from thestonecutters.net (h-68-167-67-3.NYCMNY83.dynamic.covad.net [68.167.67.3]) by chert.thestonecutters.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A9CA148007 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:39:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FFF9082.3030906@thestonecutters.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:41:22 -0500 From: xod User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: On not using du for is References: <20040110015037.69155.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040110015037.69155.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 6961 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Content-Length: 1580 Lines: 38 Jorge Llambías wrote:

--- And Rosta <a.rosta@lycos.co.uk> wrote:

"ti du le mi patfu" is malglico only when the speaker intends the
meaning "ti patfu mi". When the speaker genuinely intends the
meaning "ti du le mi patfu", it is not malglico. The malgliconess
comes simply from meaning X but saying Y, because Y more closely
resembles the we X is expressed in English.


Right. On the other hand, "ti du lo patfu be mi" is synonymous
with "ti patfu mi", as far as I can tell.

.ienairu'e .i zo ti steci le smuni .iseni'ibo lo patfu du le patfu .i mi na jimpe fi le terfrica be lu ti patfu mi li'u goiko'a be'o zu'i goiko'e .i ko'a zukte simsa .i ko'e dacti simsa (verb-like, vs. noun-like).

-- 
"American imperialism is, by definition, a retreat away from global capitalism, a retreat from the invisible hand of markets in favor of a more dominant role for the visible fist of governments," argued Paul McCulley, a managing director of PIMCO, the world's largest bond investment fund.