From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Mon Mar 01 18:49:45 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from web41901.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.152]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1AxzyS-0005BY-7E for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:49:36 -0800 Message-ID: <20040302024904.70950.qmail@web41901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.69.6.22] by web41901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:49:04 PST Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:49:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jorge "Llambías" Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: precise definition of cmene To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <200403011836.NAA06560@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 7163 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --- der Mouse wrote: > >> The proposed rule is that cmene not only end but also start with a > >> glottal stop, thus making any other restrictions unnecessary. > > This seems somewhat broken to me, as it makes it impossible to tell > where a cmene ends - unless it is forbidden to _contain_ pauses. cmene are already forbidden to contain pauses, but you are allowed to string them together as in {la djan.djonz.}, which consists of two cmene. A cmene always ends in a consonant followed by a glottal stop, that doesn't change. > Otherwise, if you hear .. it's impossible to tell > whether there's another . that ends the cmene coming up, with the > second being part of the cmene, or whether the cmene is just > the first .., with the second being lojban. You can't know where a cmene starts until you hear its ending, i.e. a consonant plus a glottal stop. That doesn't change. With the current rule, you go back from the final consonant until you find a glottal stop or a "la"/"lai"/"doi" not preceded by a consonant, and that's where the cmene starts. With the proposed rule, you go back from the final consonant until you find a glottal stop. If you hear "mi klama le zarci" without a pause, you don't know yet whether what you are hearing is a name or not. Maybe it is the cmene miklamalezarcik. The proposed rule does not change that. mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools