From sentto-44114-21812-1080207761-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Mar 25 01:43:20 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.104]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B6ROK-0005ut-Lp for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:43:12 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-21812-1080207761-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2004 09:42:41 -0000 X-Sender: xah@xahlee.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4523 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2004 09:42:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2004 09:42:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO xahlee.org) (208.186.130.4) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2004 09:42:40 -0000 Received: (from xah@localhost) by xahlee.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id i2P9gdl17608; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 04:42:39 -0500 Message-Id: <200403250942.i2P9gdl17608@xahlee.org> To: lojban@yahoogroups.com, xah@xahlee.org X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 208.186.130.4 X-eGroups-From: "xahlee.org" From: "xahlee.org" X-Yahoo-Profile: p0lyglut MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 04:42:39 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: reply to a negated selbri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 7316 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: yahoo@xahlee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list I kind of prefer for lojban to choose an interpretation/grammar as to stick to the so-called logical response to negated questions. That is, answer whether the question is true or false. Apparently this is not the case. Can anyone explain a bit why lojban choose to be the way it is? How do i view it in a positive light? :) thanks to all who helped. Xah xah@xahlee.org http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html ------------ John Cowan wrote: xahlee.org scripsit: > * it is not well-known how average English speaker responds to negated > question. (assuming that average English speaker does in fact respone > in one way.) Well, it's well-known to native speakers, who are primarily the ones addressed. > So for example, if someone asks: > > This is not white? > > and i wanted to reply that it is white, i think average English speaker > would answer "yes". (more likely: "that's right!"). Not at all. The answer would be "no" in this case, i.e. "No, that is not white". The presence of "not" in the question is completely disregarded. In the other case, one says "It *is* white", as "Yes" by itself would be confusing: one might instead say "On the contrary". This pattern varies from one language to another. In Russian and Japanese, one replies "logically": "yes" means "Yes, that is not white", and "no" means "No, that is white". In French and German as in English, "non/nein" means "No, that is not white", but the affirmative form is different from the regular affirmative ("si" instead of "oui" in French, "doch" instead of "ja" in German). > According to the "What is lojban" paragraph cited above, if we have > a conversation thus: > A: "xu ti na blabi" > B: "na go'i" > > what B is means is that "it is not white". Am i right here? Yes, you are right. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/