From phma@webjockey.net Wed Mar 10 21:48:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88532 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blackcat.ixazon.lan) (208.150.110.21) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0000 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 20A7E4B95; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:48:09 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:48:08 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403110048.08692.phma@webjockey.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 208.150.110.21 From: Pierre Abbat Subject: Re: [lojban] pronouncing =?iso-8859-1?q?=91=20as?= th X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21675 On Wednesday 10 March 2004 23:40, la_okus wrote: > The usual pronunciation of the omnipresent apostrophe has > been described as the airy glide between the words "oh hello". I, > as an American English speaker, find this to take too long and > too much energy to say. The result is that ugly lujvo like ba'orzu'e > sort of split apart and get pronounced as BA'orZU'e, being > stressed in two places. > > Then I read on the wiki that .kreig.daniyl. pronounces it as `th' in > `think'. I find that this sound can be made much more quickly, > allowing me to zip over the "ba'o" of ba'orzu'e to make ba'orZU'e. > As a side effect, my lojban sounds a lot more like tolkien's > beautiful elvish languages. I realize that many people cannot > make this sound, which is why lojban's designers did good to > allow many alternative pronunciations. I am trying to invent some > airy version of the `th' sound so as to minimize the weirdness > when talking to other lojbanists. I can pronounce /bahorzuhe/ faster than /ba=FEorzu=FEe/. /h/ requires only = a flick=20 of the vocal cords between the vowels; /=FE/ requires moving the tongue. I = even=20 pronounce {fu'arka} with /h/, though etymologically it should have /=FE/. > I am making this thread to ask what you all think of my decision. > Will lojban split into an assortment of accents, and if so, won't > this happen anyway when lojban gains more speakers outside > the US? Mind you that the lojban r is not limited to the American > English pronunciation, but also the trilled or french r. I pronounce Lojban "r" as a trill, except when it's vocalic. > PS. While I'm here, I'd like to clear up something about stress. In > the lujvo "dadysli", is it pronounced dadYsli or DADysli? Does > that little schwa get counted? DAdysli. The sound /y/ is never stressed in brivla. It can be stressed in=20 cmavo and cmene; I usually stress names of letters when spelling, but not a= s=20 often when they're used as pronouns. phma