From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Mar 18 11:00:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91095 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2004 19:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2004 19:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2004 19:00:09 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.30) id 1B42k5-0003wP-NU for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:59:45 -0800 Received: from dsl081-049-134.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([64.81.49.134] helo=chain.digitalkingdom.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B42jK-0003Xc-CV; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:58:58 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp9.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.22.22] helo=mwinf0904.wanadoo.fr) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B42jA-0003X5-Ss for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:58:49 -0800 Received: from [80.11.220.199] (ASt-Lambert-106-1-1-199.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.11.220.199]) by mwinf0904.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C7794180016C for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:58:16 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <35F378CA-790E-11D8-96C2-003065E00134@free.fr> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:58:14 +0100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) X-archive-position: 7269 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jexOm@free.fr X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: jexOm. From: jexOm. Reply-To: jexOm@free.fr Subject: [lojban] Re: How to test Sapir Whorf X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21744 I don't know if testing the SWH is still the main goal of the Lojban project. Experimenting like you describe is very difficult, don't you think? A very interesting pointer has been posted here a while ago about linguistics and whorfian effects in precise areas, I enjoyed reading these articles very much: Lera Boroditsky : http://mit.edu/~lera/www/papers/ Jérôme. Le 16 mars 04, à 03:36, la_okus a écrit : > This topic may have been covered before, so please direct me to > it if you remember any. I read some brief discussion on how > lojbanists actually expect to test sapir whorf scientifically, but the > transcripts I was reading were from ten years ago. What are the > latest plans, if any? > > So far all I can say is that speakers from a wide variety of > cultures need to be collected into a single area with suitable > extended-period living quarters. From there they would go > through complete lojban immersion until they were fluent. > Somebody mentioned a test that would be taken before and then > after this multi-year experiment in hopes of detecting a change, > but I can't be sure exactly what the nature of the test would be. > Another option is to test discretely, when they don't know they're > being tested. > > This type of testing requires vigorous scientific consideration -- > any loophole could ruin years of hard work and thousands of > dollars of spending. A second option is to leave Sapir Whorf on a > subjective basis; you learn the language, discover specific > examples where lojban is much easier and more expressive, > and leave it at that. > > Similar to the second option is to raise children in an > environment where english and lojban are spoken equally. If it is > true that bilingual speakers in such an environment will choose > the language most conventient for their needs, this may be > grounds for observing Sapir Whorf effects. Bilingual speakers > today may already experience them, but it is my hope that they > will be more apparent when one of the languages is Lojban. > > mu'omi'e .okus. > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >