From sentto-44114-22005-1081479523-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Apr 08 20:04:27 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.75]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BBmJZ-00075P-NM for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:04:21 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-22005-1081479523-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2004 02:58:43 -0000 X-Sender: a.rosta@v21.me.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64296 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2004 23:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2004 23:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.v21.co.uk) (62.41.128.11) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2004 23:32:31 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([217.140.36.250]) by kaliber.flexi-surf.co.uk (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i38NWJ310273 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:32:19 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01c41dc1$c4dc92e0$02e1fea9@oemcomputer> To: References: <20040407033605.31989.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <016d01c41ca2$bce943a0$a2e1fea9@oemcomputer> <20040407235223.GB66109@allusion.net> <001801c41d5f$59496f60$42e1fea9@oemcomputer> <20040408141251.GA71962@allusion.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 62.41.128.11 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:07:14 +0100 Subject: [lojban] Re: CMENE=BRIVLA (was Re: Opinions on "mi viska le sa .i mi cusku zo .djan.") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 7510 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@v21.me.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Jordan: > On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 12:43:50PM +0100, And Rosta wrote: > > > Probably the most explicit way to say "every john that I know", > > > without the ambiguity in xorxes' suggested {ro la djan.}: > > > > > > ro cmima be la'i djan. ku poi mi sanji ke'a cu xabju le merko > > > > You need "ro se cmene be zo djan", not "la'i djan", if anybody > > called 'John' counts as a candidate referent. > > It says {cmima}. I think you misread it... No, I read it right. English "every John" means "everyone called 'John'", at least in the example under discussion. But "(ro) la djan" (and mutatis mutandis "ro cmima be la'i djan") means "every instance of [whatever it is I am referring to by "djan"]". Of course, the speaker could intend la'i djan to be the set of everybody called djan, but that's a rather unlikely and genuinely malglico reading. --And. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/