From sentto-44114-22068-1082814412-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 06:47:39 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.76]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.31) id 1BHNV5-0002gJ-Lr for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:47:23 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-22068-1082814412-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2004 13:46:52 -0000 X-Sender: eks2@york.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24858 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2004 13:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2004 13:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.102) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2004 13:46:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2004 13:45:35 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040423192306.38622.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.102 From: "Evgeni Sklyanin" X-Originating-IP: 144.32.128.75 X-Yahoo-Profile: sklyanin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:45:33 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: traji Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 7574 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eks2@york.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list coi xorxes. .i do cusku di'e > > I entered this definition for {traji} in jbovlaste: > > x1 zmadu fa'u mleca ro cmima be x4 be'o poi na du x1 > ku'o x2 do'e x3 noi ka zmadu fa'u mleca > > I have two questions, one technical and one political. > > The technical question: Is the definition (mainly the > use of fa'u and do'e) understandable? > My translation: x1 exceeds or is inferior to [is it a good antonim to "exceed"?] every member of x4 except x1 in property x2 whereas x3 is the property of exceeding or being exceeded I cannot understand from this frase the difference between x2 and x3. The argument x3 is in my understanding something like direction/orientation, e.g. x1 is the northernmost among x4: x2={le ni darno}, x3={le nu berti}. May be {farna} can express the meaning of x3? > The political question: Do we really want to conflate > "most" and "least" into the same word, especially given > that in actual use and in all compounds it is always > "most"? Is there any advantage at all in having > {traji be fi lo ka zmadu} and {traji be fi lo ka mleca} > instead of {traji} and {tolrai}? > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > To me {traji} is the exact analog of Russian adjective "samyi" (the nearest English analog is the suffix "-est") which does not contain the idea of being big or small: e.g. "bolshoi"=big, samyi bolshoi" = the bigg-est e.g. "malenkii"=small, "samyi malenkii"=the small-est Respectively, I think of {zmadu} as "exceed", not necessarily bigger. For example, from my point of view the frase "x1 zmadu x2 le ka cmalu" is identical to "x1 mleca x2" I think, you don't need {zmadu fa'u mleca} in the definition, just {zmadu} would be enough. My variant: ko'a zmadu ja dunli ro cmima be ko'o be'o poi na du ko'a ku'o ko'e do'e ko'i noi zmadu farna co'o mi'e .evgenis. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/