From lojbab@lojban.org Wed Apr 07 03:40:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 589 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2004 10:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2004 10:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakermmtao12.cox.net) (68.230.240.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 10:16:15 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org ([68.228.12.146]) by lakermmtao12.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.01 201-2131-111-101-20040311) with ESMTP id <20040407101544.BEVG10805.lakermmtao12.cox.net@bob.lojban.org> for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:15:44 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040407061035.0337a430@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: lojbab@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:16:22 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200404042158.32235.phma@webjockey.net> References: <20040405011719.GF23652@digitalkingdom.org> <20040404222303.GD23652@digitalkingdom.org> <200404041950.52120.phma@webjockey.net> <20040405011719.GF23652@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.230.240.27 From: Bob LeChevalier Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: The strange case of "le me by moi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21949 At 08:58 PM 4/4/04 -0500, Pierre Abbat wrote: >On Sunday 04 April 2004 21:17, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 06:50:52PM -0500, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > > It means "the one belonging to by". > > > > Seems like you didn't take 'moi' into account, unless you mean "the > > first belonging to by"? > >The construction {me KOhA moi} was introduced to provide a way to say >"This is >mine" without having to say "This is my broda". The construction {ME >MOI} was put into the grammar to be able to say "a snowball's chance in >hell". At least that's the example in Chapter 18. Actually, I believe that the reason it was put in there was based on the previous example (11.13 in Chapter 18 of the red book), but it had the serendipity of allowing 11.14 as well. It has nothing to do with possessives. You need to look at the literal version of 11.14, referring to probabilities, to see why "snowball's chance in hell" uses what is fundamentally a mekso construct. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org