From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Apr 07 16:38:03 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2740 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2004 23:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2004 23:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 23:38:02 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.30) id 1BBMcL-0005ul-3t for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:38:01 -0700 Received: from dsl081-049-134.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([64.81.49.134] helo=chain.digitalkingdom.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BBMbL-0005te-9b; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:36:59 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.texas.rr.com ([24.93.47.40] helo=ms-smtp-01-eri0.texas.rr.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BBMbC-0005tQ-9T for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:36:50 -0700 Received: from fracture (cs24349-133.austin.rr.com [24.243.49.133]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i37NallK014369 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:36:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: by fracture (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:52:23 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:52:23 -0500 Message-ID: <20040407235223.GB66109@allusion.net> References: <20040407033605.31989.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> <016d01c41ca2$bce943a0$a2e1fea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uQr8t48UFsdbeI+V" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <016d01c41ca2$bce943a0$a2e1fea9@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-archive-position: 7493 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: "Jordan DeLong" From: "Jordan DeLong" Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net Subject: [lojban] Re: Opinions on "mi viska le sa .i mi cusku zo .djan." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 21965 --uQr8t48UFsdbeI+V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 02:16:18PM +0100, And Rosta wrote: > XORXES: > > But saving a syllable here and there is not that much power. The > > ability to use names as brivla gives you a lot more expressive power: > >=20 > > ro djan poi mi djuno cu xabju le merko > > Every John I know lives in the US. >=20 > Jordan: > > [I think you meant sanji; djuno can't be used like that] > > Realistically, you'd likely say something more like > > ro me la djan. ku poi mi sanji cu xabju le merko >=20 > I support CMENE=3DBRIVLA, and maybe the equivalence of "djan" and=20 > "me la djan", but "ro me la djan" doesn't mean "every John (that > I know)" (in the usual interpretation of that phrase). > Rather, "djan" and "me la djan" would mean "every instance/subkind > of the Kind that I am calling 'djan'". (Of course, the Kind that > I call 'djan' may indeed be the Kind corresponding to the > set of all things that are called 'John' (or that I call > 'djan').) The above doesn't make sense to me.... But you got me thinking about {me}, and I think it is incorrect. {me } returns a predicate for `x1 is -esque in aspect x2'. What does {da me la djan.} mean? Unless the zo'e x2 is interpreted to mean {leka du} it doesn't make any sense. So I suppose you could use {du}? {ro du be su'o la djan.} is everything equal to one of the johns. Probably the most explicit way to say "every john that I know", without the ambiguity in xorxes' suggested {ro la djan.}: ro cmima be la'i djan. ku poi mi sanji ke'a cu xabju le merko --=20 Jordan DeLong fracture@allusion.net --uQr8t48UFsdbeI+V Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline [Attachment content not displayed.] --uQr8t48UFsdbeI+V--