From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon May 31 06:19:19 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91779 invoked from network); 31 May 2004 13:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2004 13:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2004 13:19:17 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.32) id 1BUmgi-0002sb-4L for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 06:18:48 -0700 Received: from dsl081-049-134.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([64.81.49.134] helo=chain.digitalkingdom.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BUmZl-0002md-Cc; Mon, 31 May 2004 06:11:37 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 31 May 2004 06:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.150.110.21] (helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BUmZR-0002ls-Bd for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 31 May 2004 06:11:18 -0700 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E8BF74950; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:10:01 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:10:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20040531124525.92306.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040531124525.92306.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200405310910.01587.phma@phma.hn.org> X-archive-position: 8020 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.hn.org X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Pierre Abbat From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@phma.hn.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Learning Lojban X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 22476 On Monday 31 May 2004 08:45, Jorge "Llambías" wrote: > --- Robin Turner wrote: > > Lojban does not have nouns, verbs etc., and I am > > convinced that our endless debates about Lojban articles are partly > > caused by the fact that we still think of them as articles. > > Sounds right. I think the best way to think of {lo} is as > a selbri-to-sumti converter, without any additional baggage. To someone who doesn't know Lojban, "selbri" and "sumti" are semantic zeros. The closest terms in English, I think, are "verb phrase" and "noun phrase", and it's important to note that a bare noun cannot be used as a noun phrase in Lojban, whereas it can in English, French, and most other languages I know. phma -- li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa