From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Aug 29 13:09:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33214 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2004 20:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2004 20:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2004 20:09:36 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1C1VzW-0000iW-TY for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:09:31 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C1Vyq-0000hm-Ar; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:08:48 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fysh.org ([83.170.75.51] helo=bowl.fysh.org ident=mail) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1C1Vyc-0000hZ-A3 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:08:34 -0700 Received: from zefram by bowl.fysh.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1C1Vyc-00060T-00 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:08:34 +0100 Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:08:34 +0100 Message-ID: <20040829200834.GA14095@fysh.org> References: <200408272104.18139.phma@phma.hn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200408272104.18139.phma@phma.hn.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-archive-position: 8567 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: zefram@fysh.org X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Zefram From: Zefram Reply-To: zefram@fysh.org Subject: [lojban] Re: names of the elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 22981 I've done an analysis of Pierre's list of element names. Some of them are not entirely satisfactory, and I have some suggestions for new names. overview -------- I've classified Pierre's element names into these groups: 0. Lojbanic name is a gismu 1. English name is based on a proper name, reproduced as a fu'ivla in Lojban 2. English name is based on a proper name, and the Lojbanic name is original 3. English name is not based on a proper name, and the Lojbanic name is a fu'ivla 4. English name is not based on a proper name, and the Lojbanic name has a different etymology 5. English name is not based on a proper name, and the etymology of the English name is reproduced in Lojban type 0: H, C, N, O, *Ne, *Na, S, *Cl, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, Sn, Au, Hg, Pb, type 1: Be, B, Al, K, Ti, V, Mn, As, Sr, Y, Nb, Pd, Cd, Sb, Ce, Sm, Gd, Tb, Ho, Er, Tm, Yb, Lu, Hf, Ta, Re, Bi, U, Np, Pl, Cm, Bk, Cf, Es, Fm, Md, No, Lr, Rf type 2: Mg, Pm, Th, type 3: Sc, Zr, Mo, Ru, Rh, Cs, La, Pr, Nd, Dy, Os, Ir, Pt, Tl, *Po, At, Ac, Pa, type 4: F, Ca, Cr, Br, In, Xe, W, type 5: He, Li, Si, P, Ar, Co, Ga, *Ge, Se, Kr, Rb, Tc, Te, I, Ba, Eu, Rn, Fr, Ra, Am, My opinion is that names of type 3 should not exist; they should be replaced by type 5 names. Also, type 4 names are suspect; some appear to be mistaken, and should probably be of type 5. I also encourage the coining of type 2 names in place of type 1 names, because fu'ivla are not amenable to lujvo formation. errors ------ The names of the elements I've identified with "*" in the list above appear to be outright errors. Germanium is named {dotyjinme} "German metal", but germanium is not in fact a metal. Following the form of name used for the other metalloids, it should be {dotjicmu} "German element". Similarly, polonium {jinmrpoloni} should be {jicmrpoloni}. The three group names {kliru} (halogen), {navni} (noble gas), and {sodna} (alkali metal) are each used unmodified to refer to their prototypical element (Cl, Ne, Na, respectively). These words thus have a different place structure from all the other element names, and semantics that I think make them unsuitable for this use. Specific names should be coined for these three elements. I suggest {ri'okliru} "green halogen" for Cl and {ninynavni} "new noble gas" for Ne, in each case matching the English etymology to create a type 5 name. I suggest {silnysodna} "salt alkali-metal" for Na, which is a type 2 name. questionable etymologies ------------------------ Flourine: {li'orkliru} "light halogen" is a good name, but the etymology suggests {fleklira} "flow halogen". Calcium: {bogjinme} "bone metal" is a good name. The English etymology refers to "lime", for which we have no convenient word. Chromium: {rogjinme} "shiny metal" is a reasonable name, but the etymology suggests {skaryjinme} "colour metal". Bromine: {xunkliru} "red halogen" is a reasonable name, but the etymology suggests {sumnrkliru} "smell halogen". Indium: {xinjinme} "Indian metal" looks like a misunderstanding. The name "indium" comes from the indigo emission line, and has nothing to do with India. So I suggest {blanyjinme} "blue metal". Xenon: {ciznavni} "strange noble gas" is OK but smells of malglico. {fangynavni} "foreign noble gas" is closer to the English etymology. Tungsten: {gusyciljinme} "illumination filament metal" is an unnecessary and somewhat awkward neologism. "tung sten" is Swedish for "heavy stone", which would yield {tijro'ijinme}. If a neologism is preferred, I suggest {jarjinme} "hard metal", which alludes to more of tungsten's uses. unnecessary fu'ivla ------------------- Here are a couple of suggestions for type 5 names to replace type 3 names: Ruthenium: {rukyjinme} "Russian metal" Rhodium: {zgujinme} "rose metal" Caesium: {blanysodna} "blue alkali metal" Comments please. -zefram