From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Aug 21 02:16:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49514 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2004 09:16:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2004 09:16:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2004 09:16:32 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1ByRzB-00072t-1p for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 02:16:29 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ByRyL-00071s-Ub; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 02:15:38 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 21 Aug 2004 02:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fysh.org ([83.170.75.51] helo=bowl.fysh.org ident=mail) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1ByRy0-00071K-Cx for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 02:15:17 -0700 Received: from zefram by bowl.fysh.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ByRxo-0004aT-00 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:15:04 +0100 Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:15:04 +0100 Message-ID: <20040821091504.GA13917@fysh.org> References: <20040820083359.GA7469@fysh.org> <20040820190429.GE5127@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20040820190947.GF5127@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <200408202125.31324.phma@phma.hn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200408202125.31324.phma@phma.hn.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-archive-position: 8513 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: zefram@fysh.org X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Zefram From: Zefram Reply-To: zefram@fysh.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Piraha and SWH X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 22930 Pierre Abbat wrote: >Hm. Is there any way the Pirahã (that word keeps making me think Piranha) Apparently it's pronounced {pida'AN}. >could be convinced to let their children take math lessons so that when they >grow up they can tell when they're being cheated? This was something that occurred to me. Because of their exceptionally simple kinship system, they're somewhat inbred. We need this experiment, in order to see whether the inability to gain numeracy is genetic or (as Everett claims) cultural. It looks like so far no outsider has lived with them long enough to do this. Something else that occurred to me. Several aspects of their culture and cognition remind me of the depiction of Homo erectus in Stephen Baxter's novel "Evolution". The impermanence of everything; discarding tools after a couple of uses; failure to acquire new skills (dugout canoe making) comparable in complexity to existing skills; inability to stick to a planned task (house building); inconsideration of anything not actually present (the planes and model building). Might this be a remnant of pre-human culture? Someone has got to stop them buying whiskey. -zefram