From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Aug 29 14:48:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76746 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2004 21:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2004 21:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2004 21:48:57 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1C1XXf-00029L-KO for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:48:51 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C1XWy-00028T-EB; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:48:08 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.189.121.177] (helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C1XWh-00027v-UU for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:47:52 -0700 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4272A4B1C; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:47:24 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:47:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200408272104.18139.phma@phma.hn.org> <20040829200834.GA14095@fysh.org> In-Reply-To: <20040829200834.GA14095@fysh.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200408291747.23681.phma@phma.hn.org> X-archive-position: 8569 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.hn.org X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Pierre Abbat From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@phma.hn.org Subject: [lojban] Re: names of the elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 22983 On Sunday 29 August 2004 16:08, Zefram wrote: > My opinion is that names of type 3 should not exist; they should be > replaced by type 5 names. Also, type 4 names are suspect; some appear > to be mistaken, and should probably be of type 5. I also encourage the > coining of type 2 names in place of type 1 names, because fu'ivla are > not amenable to lujvo formation. Type 3 fu'ivla are, as long as they end in one vowel (see valfendi, which implements the fu'ivla rafsi tests), but some type 4 fu'ivla, such as {mlibdena}, are not. But we can always use {zei}. > errors > ------ > > The names of the elements I've identified with "*" in the list above > appear to be outright errors. > > Germanium is named {dotyjinme} "German metal", but germanium is > not in fact a metal. Following the form of name used for the other > metalloids, it should be {dotjicmu} "German element". Similarly, > polonium {jinmrpoloni} should be {jicmrpoloni}. Fixed > The three group names {kliru} (halogen), {navni} (noble gas), and {sodna} > (alkali metal) are each used unmodified to refer to their prototypical > element (Cl, Ne, Na, respectively). These words thus have a different > place structure from all the other element names, and semantics that > I think make them unsuitable for this use. Specific names should be > coined for these three elements. I suggest {ri'okliru} "green halogen" > for Cl and {ninynavni} "new noble gas" for Ne, in each case matching > the English etymology to create a type 5 name. I suggest {silnysodna} > "salt alkali-metal" for Na, which is a type 2 name. Fixed. I'm not sure {silnysodna} is good, as "salt" in chemistry refers to a wide variety of ionic compounds, not just sodium chloride. {ri'orkliru} is a very minimal pair with {li'orkliru}, and CJKs are going to fly lice. > questionable etymologies > ------------------------ > > Flourine: {li'orkliru} "light halogen" is a good name, but the etymology > suggests {fleklira} "flow halogen". {li'orkliru} is from oldlog.txt. > Calcium: {bogjinme} "bone metal" is a good name. The English etymology > refers to "lime", for which we have no convenient word. > > Chromium: {rogjinme} "shiny metal" is a reasonable name, but the etymology > suggests {skaryjinme} "colour metal". > > Bromine: {xunkliru} "red halogen" is a reasonable name, but the etymology > suggests {sumnrkliru} "smell halogen". > > Indium: {xinjinme} "Indian metal" looks like a misunderstanding. > The name "indium" comes from the indigo emission line, and has nothing > to do with India. So I suggest {blanyjinme} "blue metal". Fixed. > Xenon: {ciznavni} "strange noble gas" is OK but smells of malglico. > {fangynavni} "foreign noble gas" is closer to the English etymology. Fixed. > Tungsten: {gusyciljinme} "illumination filament metal" is an unnecessary > and somewhat awkward neologism. "tung sten" is Swedish for "heavy stone", > which would yield {tijro'ijinme}. If a neologism is preferred, I suggest > {jarjinme} "hard metal", which alludes to more of tungsten's uses. Fixed. > unnecessary fu'ivla > ------------------- > > Here are a couple of suggestions for type 5 names to replace type 3 names: > > Ruthenium: {rukyjinme} "Russian metal" Fixed. > Rhodium: {zgujinme} "rose metal" Fixed. > Caesium: {blanysodna} "blue alkali metal" Fixed. I also added Db-Ds; I'm not sure what to do with "ntg" in Rg. Last time I went to Germany my luggage came back with stickers saying "Gepäckstück geröntgt", which I still have trouble pronouncing. phma -- li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa