From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Aug 30 09:33:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86536 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2004 16:33:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2004 16:33:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2004 16:33:42 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1C1p61-0001Cf-PY for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:33:30 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C1p4v-0001B3-NC; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:32:22 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.zgs.de ([212.4.227.46]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C1p4c-0001A3-6O for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:32:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.zgs.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389AF16E9F for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:31:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp.zgs.de ([212.4.227.46]) by localhost (msheas02c [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23450-07 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:31:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from z.zgs.de (p5083440D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.131.68.13]) by smtp.zgs.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FCC16EA7 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:31:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <41335628.8040909@z.zgs.de> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:30:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; de-AT; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, fr, de, pt, es, ja, pt-br MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200408272104.18139.phma@phma.hn.org> <20040829200834.GA14095@fysh.org> <200408291747.23681.phma@phma.hn.org> <537d06d004083001332a80f811@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <537d06d004083001332a80f811@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at msheas02c.msh.de X-archive-position: 8582 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: KSchmir@z.zgs.de X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: klaus schmirler From: klaus schmirler Reply-To: KSchmir@z.zgs.de Subject: [lojban] Re: names of the elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 22997 Philip Newton schrieb: >On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:47:23 -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > >>I'm not sure what to do with "ntg" in Rg. Last time I went >>to Germany my luggage came back with stickers saying "Gepäckstück geröntgt", >>which I still have trouble pronouncing. >> >> > >I say [g@"R9ntCt] (X-SAMPA), though that may show north German >influence (which tends to turn syllable-final /g/ into [x] or [C], >depending on the preceding vowel - witness ["flu:xtsOYC] for >|Flugzeug|). > >I suspect that standard German, which has /g/ = [g], may drop the >first "t" and make it [g@"R9Nkt]. > >mu'o mi'e .filip. noi xabju la dotygug. > > I think nobody (exept a friendly teacher doing dictation) would say [g@"R9ntCt]. In Röntgen's name (and the infinitive of the verb) t and g belong to separate syllables, and there's no problem there. The past participle exchanges the final -en by a t, and that forces the preceding t and g into the same syllable. It's almost logical that they should melt into x (Ich-Laut, maybe the C in x-sampa). The normal german pronunciation, for doctors and customs officers north and south, is "gerenxt" (add lip rounding to the second e). klaus