From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Aug 20 01:34:59 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25074 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2004 08:34:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2004 08:34:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2004 08:34:59 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1By4rQ-00078m-TI for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:34:57 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1By4qm-00077y-GJ; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:34:16 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fysh.org ([83.170.75.51] helo=bowl.fysh.org ident=mail) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1By4qY-00077e-RM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:34:03 -0700 Received: from zefram by bowl.fysh.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1By4qV-0002Iu-00; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:33:59 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:33:59 +0100 Message-ID: <20040820083359.GA7469@fysh.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-archive-position: 8504 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: zefram@fysh.org X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Zefram From: Zefram Reply-To: zefram@fysh.org Subject: [lojban] Piraha and SWH X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 22922 I've just read a newpaper article about the Piraha group of Amazonian Indians and their amazing language. The article was about the language lacking any exact number words: there are words for "few" and "many", but not "one", "two", or "three". Piraha people turn out to be incapable of the simplest counting tasks. They're unable to distinguish between groups of four and five objects. When asked to copy a group of identical objects, they can't accurately reproduce any number higher than about four. It's an interesting case for the SWH. I can't find a copy of the article online, or any other short description of that phenomenon. However, I did find a scholarly paper which discusses several similarly interesting aspects of the Piraha language: "Cultural Constraints on Grammar and Cognition in Piraha", Daniel L. Everett, Department of Linguistics, The University of Manchester, http://lings.ln.man.ac.uk/info/staff/DE/cultgram.pdf extract from the abstract: "... Piraha culture constrains communication to non-abstract subjects which fall within the immediate experience of interlocutors. This constraint explains several very surprising features of Piraha grammar and culture ...". It's fascinating reading. -zefram