From martin.bays@christ-church.oxford.ac.uk Tue Oct 19 03:27:36 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 03:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fb0.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.175]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CJrCl-00089O-UY for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 03:27:00 -0700 Received: from tx4.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.173]) by fb0.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CJpyK-0004C6-S5 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:08:00 +0100 Received: from scan4.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.177] helo=localhost) by tx4.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CJpyF-00058K-FP for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:07:55 +0100 Received: from rx4.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.172]) by localhost (scan4.mail.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.177]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 19298-06 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:07:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from dh178.chch.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.120.178] helo=chch.ox.ac.uk) by rx4.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CJpyF-00058H-Et for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:07:55 +0100 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:07:53 +0100 From: Martin Bays To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: jordis Message-ID: <20041019090753.GA13645@thedave.chch.ox.ac.uk> References: <20041018212618.GV22470@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20041018232634.60119.qmail@web51609.mail.yahoo.com> <20041018233121.GA6056@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041018233121.GA6056@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6 X-cunselcu'a-valsi: jimca User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-archive-position: 8761 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jboste@zugzwang.port5.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list * Monday, 2004-10-18 at 16:31 -0700 - Robin Lee Powell : > On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 04:26:34PM -0700, jordi mas wrote: > > > There needs to be *some* sumti after the "me". > > > > Thx. OK. As for instance "le prenu". But suppose I > > don't know whether the said translator is a person or > > something else, say an alien or something. What's > > the most generic sumti I could put there? Would "tu" > > work? Or "da" ? Any sumti meaning "person(s) or > > thing(s) or anything else" would work fine. > > "da" is most general, then. But {do me da poi broda} ("you are specific to someone who brodas") is surely still less precise than {do du da poi broda} - which is logically equivalent to (but a more flexible construction than) {do broda}. AFAICT, {me} has a pretty vague meaning. xorxes' entry to the lojban jbovlaste seems about right though: galfi le se li'erla'i sumti lo brivla .i x[1] se sinxa le sumti which would mean it is true that {mi me da poi vlapau dei} (since I am signified by {mi}), but it certainly isn't true that {mi du da poi vlapau dei}. Martin