From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Oct 22 14:42:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48379 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 21:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2004 21:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 21:42:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CL79v-000143-IQ for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:41:15 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CL799-00013F-ML; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:40:27 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [69.55.227.156] (helo=transfinite.hypercomplex.net ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1CL78x-00012t-Sd for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:40:16 -0700 Received: from std5.imagineis.com (std5.imagineis.com [64.90.180.93]) by transfinite.hypercomplex.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4.swsoft) with ESMTP id i9MLeDUK027520 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:40:14 -0700 Received: from std5.imagineis.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by std5.imagineis.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9MKxPOY019483 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:59:25 -0400 Received: (from apache@localhost) by std5.imagineis.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i9MKxP8Q019479; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:59:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: std5.imagineis.com: apache set sender to bruce@brucewebber.com using -f Received: from 155.139.50.14 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user bdw235); by std5.imagineis.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4710.155.139.50.14.1098478765.squirrel@155.139.50.14> In-Reply-To: <20041022200740.70906.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041022200740.70906.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:59:25 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-0.f0.9.1.legacy X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-0.f0.9.1.legacy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:40:39 by milter-greylist-1.4 (transfinite.hypercomplex.net [69.55.227.156]); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:40:14 -0700 (PDT) X-archive-position: 8838 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: bruce@brucewebber.com X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: "Bruce Webber" From: "Bruce Webber" Reply-To: bruce@brucewebber.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Help in examples ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23244 > What I'm saying is that we may label things however we > want as long as we get the meaning across. No > particular way of labelling has magical effects. > If someone wants to know how lojban works (I'm > not saying to learn it), you must explain that > {le karce cu blanu} means > "car is blue", regardless of whether you say that > {blanu} is a "gismu", a "verb" or a "pigeon". > Using nouns that a lojbanist would approve off > doesn't make things easier to understand at all. > > Regards, > > --jordi Gismu capture relations. So we could say {klama} is a verb, but {klama} is also part of {le klama} (the traveller), {le se klama} (the destination), etc., which we call nouns. By capturing the relationship of "going", we gain all these additional uses of the same word. Language useful to the extent that its structure matches the structure of the world. Often English and other natural languages separate things and identify things in ways that do not match the world very well. I like that Lojban expresses relations, because structure is based on relations. mi'e brus.