From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Oct 20 17:49:16 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50976 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2004 00:49:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Oct 2004 00:49:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Oct 2004 00:49:15 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CKR8i-0001a1-0O for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:49:12 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKR7r-0001ZY-8p; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:48:19 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tx4.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.173]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKR7f-0001ZH-AO for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:48:07 -0700 Received: from scan4.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.177] helo=localhost) by tx4.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CKR7a-0003LK-Ex for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:48:02 +0100 Received: from rx4.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.172]) by localhost (scan4.mail.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.177]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 12661-02 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:48:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from dh178.chch.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.120.178] helo=chch.ox.ac.uk) by rx4.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CKR7a-0003LH-ER for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:48:02 +0100 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:48:02 +0100 Message-ID: <20041021004802.GA6493@thedave.chch.ox.ac.uk> References: <20041020233401.GA5205@thedave.chch.ox.ac.uk> <20041021001431.35370.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041021001431.35370.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6 X-cunselcu'a-valsi: racli User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-archive-position: 8818 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jboste@zugzwang.port5.com X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Martin Bays From: Martin Bays Reply-To: jboste@zugzwang.port5.com Subject: [lojban] Re: jordis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23224 * Wednesday, 2004-10-20 at 17:14 -0700 - Jorge Llamb?as : > > --- Martin Bays wrote: > > """ > > Alternatively, the ``ba'e'' can be moved to a position before the > > ``la'', which in effect emphasizes the whole construct ``la djordj.'': > > """ > > This led me to believe that {ba'e} works like UI in this respect. > The difference is that {ba'e} acts on a word, whereas most UIs don't. > If you say {djordj iu} you express love for George, not for the word > {djordj}. If you say {ba'e djordj} on the other hand, you emphasize the > word {djordj}, not George the person (what would it mean to emphasize a > person?). So UIs may require more than a single word because they act > on what the word points to, and gadri by themselves don't point to > anything. I agree that the CLL example would seem to support your > view, though. That makes alot of sense. I agree that {ba'e} should work as you say (whether or not it "does"). Does that leave any way to emphasize constructs? A {ba'e} before each word would be both cumbersome and inaccurate ("*my* *wife*" and "*my wife*" are different both in pronunciation and meaning). The only option I can see is to co-opt {fu'e} - am I missing something less kludgey?