From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Oct 20 16:35:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60572 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2004 23:35:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Oct 2004 23:35:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Oct 2004 23:35:12 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CKPz4-0000ab-G5 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:35:10 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKPyK-0000Zz-Sg; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:34:25 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [69.55.227.156] (helo=transfinite.hypercomplex.net ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1CKPy9-0000Zk-2m for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:34:13 -0700 Received: from tx0.mail.ox.ac.uk (tx0.mail.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.163]) by transfinite.hypercomplex.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4.swsoft) with ESMTP id i9KNYAUK021507 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:34:11 -0700 Received: from scan0.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.162] helo=localhost) by tx0.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CKPy1-0004qW-36 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:34:06 +0100 Received: from rx0.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.161]) by localhost (scan0.mail.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.162]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 17556-07 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:34:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from dh178.chch.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.120.178] helo=chch.ox.ac.uk) by rx0.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CKPxx-0004oz-2O for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:34:01 +0100 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:34:01 +0100 Message-ID: <20041020233401.GA5205@thedave.chch.ox.ac.uk> References: <20041020173832.GA15196@thedave.chch.ox.ac.uk> <20041020181846.38766.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041020181846.38766.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6 X-cunselcu'a-valsi: sanga User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.4 (transfinite.hypercomplex.net [69.55.227.156]); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:34:11 -0700 ( X-archive-position: 8813 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jboste@zugzwang.port5.com X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Martin Bays From: Martin Bays Reply-To: jboste@zugzwang.port5.com Subject: [lojban] Re: jordis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23219 * Wednesday, 2004-10-20 at 11:18 -0700 - Jorge Llamb?as : > > --- Martin Bays wrote: > > {le ba'e mi speni}, {ba'e le mi speni} and {le mi ba'e speni} > > correspond > > respectively to "*my* wife", "*my wife*" and "my *wife*". > > {le ba'e mi speni} and {le mi ba'e speni}, yes. > > But {ba'e le mi speni} doesn't really have a direct correspondence > in English. It's more like "*the* wife of mine". {ba'e} emphasizes > the very next word, not the following phrase. Since the > distinguishing feature of {le} is specificity, that's what {ba'e} > would be emphasizing here: not just any old wife of mine but *the* > one(s) I have in mind. Really? I can believe that that's the usage, and the Book isn't completely clear on this - but it does say: """ Alternatively, the ``ba'e'' can be moved to a position before the ``la'', which in effect emphasizes the whole construct ``la djordj.'': 11.5) mi viska ba'e la djordj. I saw [emphasis] the-one-named ``George''. I saw George. """ This led me to believe that {ba'e} works like UI in this respect.