From rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Tue Nov 09 11:18:06 2004
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:18:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34)
	id 1CRbUl-0004Gc-0k
	for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:17:35 -0800
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:17:35 -0800
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban] Re: Questions about the Magic Words
Message-ID: <20041109191734.GZ20718@chain.digitalkingdom.org>
Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org
References: <87828601-324C-11D9-9684-000D9329C984@online.fr>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <87828601-324C-11D9-9684-000D9329C984@online.fr>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040722i
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
X-archive-position: 8970
X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org
X-list: lojban-list

On Tue, Nov 09, 2004 at 01:40:25PM +0100, Rapha?l Poss wrote:
> I am now reading the Magic Words wiki page, and it actually
> challenges what I thought I previously knew about the lojban
> grammar.

I bet.  Please note that xorxes and I are discussing a completely
different version, as well.

I would like to know how hard you think it would be to memorize the
rules as I've listed them.

> I would very much appreciate if someone could enlighten me on the
> following points :
> 
> 1. "zo y bu == (zo bu) [one y ignored]" or "zo y bu == (zo (y
> bu))" ?

The former.  If .y. wasn't ignored, the latter would be an error.

> 2. is "broda lo'u brode fa'o" grammatical ? (can we assume that
> fa'o closes all elidable terminators, even le'u ?)

That's a parser design issue, really, but as it stands, no.  Bear in
mind that le'u is *NOT* an elidable terminator, in that it is not
elidable.

> 3. what remains after "zo y bu si" ?

An unfilled zo.

> 4. what remains after "zoi zoi zo zoi sa zo" ? (I ask because I
> notice sa is processed before zoi)

The stuff inside zoi is not processed as Lojban, and hence has no
selma'o, so nothing remains.

> 5. is the word just after "sa" erased with the sa itself ? (I
> think not, but please confirm)

No.  The full word definitions will be more clear on this point.

> 6. I notice that fa'o is processed before zoi : what remains after
> "broda zoi zoi fa'o" ? (is the quote automatically closed, or does
> the sumti become ungrammatical ?)

Neither; the fa'o is quoted by being inside a zoi construction.

Clearly, zoi should be closer to the top of the list.

> 7. in case "no" to 5, about zei, I can read: "it affects whatever
> is to the left after the erasing is done; if nothing is left an
> error result". What remains after "broda zei brode sa zei brodi" ?

broda zei brodi

-Robin