From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Nov 02 14:27:33 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26596 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2004 22:27:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2004 22:27:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2004 22:27:30 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CP77b-0001hA-G0 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:27:23 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CP76i-0001fX-Uv; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:26:29 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.55.227.156] (helo=transfinite.hypercomplex.net ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1CP76X-0001fE-Iq for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:26:17 -0800 Received: from tx0.mail.ox.ac.uk (tx0.mail.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.163]) by transfinite.hypercomplex.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4.swsoft) with ESMTP id iA2MQuMZ020835 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:26:56 -0800 Received: from scan0.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.162] helo=localhost) by tx0.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CP76P-0001iB-07 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:26:09 +0000 Received: from rx0.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.161]) by localhost (scan0.mail.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.162]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 06276-06 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:26:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dh178.chch.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.120.178] helo=chch.ox.ac.uk) by rx0.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CP76O-0001i7-2i for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:26:08 +0000 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:26:05 +0000 Message-ID: <20041102222605.GB10350@thedave.chch.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20041102213330.GA10350@thedave.chch.ox.ac.uk> <20041102214429.52886.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041102214429.52886.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6 X-cunselcu'a-valsi: kadno User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.4 (transfinite.hypercomplex.net [69.55.227.156]); Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:26:57 -0800 ( X-archive-position: 8918 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jboste@zugzwang.port5.com X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Martin Bays From: Martin Bays Reply-To: jboste@zugzwang.port5.com Subject: [lojban] Re: na scope. Again. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23324 * Tuesday, 2004-11-02 at 13:44 -0800 - Jorge Llamb?as : > --- Martin Bays wrote: > > * Tuesday, 2004-11-02 at 13:08 -0800 - Jorge Llamb?as > > : > > > (1) mi ge na nelci gi djica > > > (2) mi ge na nelci gi na djica > > > (3) mi na ge nelci gi djica > > > > > {mi naku nelci gi'e djica} would still be (3) though, right? > > Right. And {mi nelci na gi'e djica} is unambiguously (1). Yes, confusingly enough. While we're on the subject... Is the BPFK or anyone else ba'o a ca a pu'o working on the various problems with the interaction between negation, unprenexed quantifiers and infix connectives, as raised e.g. by pycyn on the wiki some months (years?) ago (http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Logic+Language+Draft+3.1)? Last I heard much of the semantics in even slightly complicated cases was ill-defined. Is this still the case? Martin