From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Nov 03 12:14:49 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61647 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2004 20:14:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2004 20:14:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2004 20:14:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CPRVH-0003gX-JH for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:13:11 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CPRTf-0003eV-Su; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:11:32 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:11:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CPRTT-0003dt-Cd for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:11:20 -0800 Received: by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix, from userid 72) id 1A89133A8D; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:10:43 +0200 (EET) Received: from [139.179.111.112] (ppp112.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.112]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A68426F87 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:10:41 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <41892F95.2010804@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:20:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040914 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20041103182058.49411.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041103182058.49411.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 8934 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: robin From: robin Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Subject: [lojban] Re: na scope. Again. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23340 Jorge Llambías wrote: > --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > >>--- Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> >> >>>On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 07:12:16AM -0800, Jorge Llamb?as wrote: >>> >>>>I am doing the section on NA, which should cover some of that. My >>>>intention is to propose an interpretation where the scope of {na} >>>>is restricted to what follows it. >>> >>>This would change the meaning of simple negations like "mi na klama >>>le zarci", would it not? Good mabla luck. >> >>Not at all, how would that change? There are no quantifiers >>or connectives to interact with {na} there. > > > What it would change is simple negations like > {mi e do na klama le zarci}. Instead of meaning that > either I don't go, or you don't go, or both, it would > mean that neither I nor you go. > I would find that rather weird (lojbanically - it makes sense if you want to make Lojban closer to English), and also think it would defeat the point of using "na" rather than "na'e". If "na" doesn't mean "it is not the case that [brivla]", what does it mean that isn't covered by a different negative? robin.tr -- "His youngest brother, Tendzin Choegyal, says one of the Dalai Lama's greatest finds of recent years was super-glue -- second, in fact, only to the more recent discovery of super-glue remover." Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Universitesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin