From yahoogroups@thecartographers.net Wed Nov 24 03:06:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: thecartographers@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48684 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2004 11:06:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2004 11:06:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.201) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2004 11:06:56 -0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so22420rnz for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:06:55 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Odn2NkAzShx2cmYOaZCbciEu/aF3eyPLXKD+Mr7/qPPtVODu9pxFarNtKsO8p46gB7Tgv5IlHa6wN+ywI7rm3ahsdZWC98i5BHgr+Q0/Js64Lzky14w1hC29QLWY6MgHr8B456yr8tBBg6sGrquQ5GWzZ+tOmAbc/Hy6dcQsfto= Received: by 10.38.179.40 with SMTP id b40mr196920rnf; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.179.73 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:06:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:06:55 +1100 To: jordimastrullenque@yahoo.com Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041124105418.71982.qmail@web51609.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041124083223.GC25791@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20041124105418.71982.qmail@web51609.mail.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.233.170.201 X-eGroups-From: Tristan Mc Leay From: Tristan Mc Leay Reply-To: Tristan Mc Leay Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Alliterative verse try X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193465995 X-Yahoo-Profile: kesuari X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23448 On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:54:17 -0800 (PST), jordi mas wrote: > > > > DANsu le DAmryzgi || fa le ga'arDANti > > > bai le nu le DEGji || cu gityDEsku > > > i pu TRAti gi'e ca TCEna || fa le TAbrysna > > > ce'o batyTUNta || poi KANsa le snosliTO'a > > > > I have not the skill to comment usefully on > > alliterative verse, but > > it looks pretty cool to me. > > Forgot to say, I too lack > alliterative verse criticism skills, > but I've read the poem aloud > and IMHO that TCE does not seem > to sound like anything else in the > same line, to my ears I mean. No doubt > native lojban speakers might be of > a different opinion, eventually. The basic ideas of alliterative verse is that you have four stressed syllables per line (two per half-line; the || in the above I assume are the caesurae---pauses---that separate the half-lines), with at least two of the stressed syllables (and normally three) alliterating. I would consider the above poor for an expert, but a good start. The exact rules on alliteration are language-dependent. In Old English, s, sc, st, and sp did not alliterate, whereas /k/ and /tS/ (spelt c) or /g/ and /j/ (spelt g) alliterated. (In Old English, all vowels alliterate with all others, but as Lojban Alliterative Poetry develops, it might be that they have to assonate instead, or perhaps they could even be banned from alliterative positions.) I think it's quite reasonable to assume that in Lojban, TC aliterates with T and TR, as TC is considered an onset, not a single sound. -- Tristan