From sentto-44114-23720-1106439261-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jan 22 16:14:59 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:15:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CsVP2-0000SM-Pw for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:14:52 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2005 00:14:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2005 00:14:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: a.rosta@v21.me.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33645 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2005 00:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2005 00:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO heineken.flexi-surf.co.uk) (62.41.128.20) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2005 00:14:20 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-59-12.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.59.12]) by heineken.flexi-surf.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id j0MM2RS05378 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:02:28 GMT Message-ID: <002e01c500df$b97840a0$0c3b0751@oemcomputer> To: References: <20050122152705.60562.qmail@web41901.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 62.41.128.20 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:00:20 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: outer and inner quantifiers on "le" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 9311 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@v21.me.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list xorxes: > --- And: > > IMO {pi mu lei broda} should be equivalent to {(pa) fi'u re > > lei broda}, for nonequivalence might seem an insult to mathematics > > (though admittedly the existence of the mathematically suspect > > locution "pi ro" might imply nonequivalence -- but I would rather > > abolish "pi ro" as incoherent). But also IMO, {pa lei broda} would > > best be seen as an abbreviation of {pa fi'u ro lei broda}, "one out > > of all the broda". So it would follow that {pa fi'u re lei pa no no > > broda} should mean "one out of every two of the hundred broda", and > > then so should "pi mu lei pa no no broda". > > Right, you wouldn't admit fractions of broda at all, just fractions > of numbers of broda. > > But it is very hard to not interpret {pa pi mu lo plise} as > one and a half apples. Good point. The same goes for {ci fi'u re lo plise}, which is either one and a half apples or gobbledygook. Anyway, the half-an-apple reading has some strange consequences: pi mu (lo) plise cu se citka = pi mu da poi plise cu se citka = pi mu da ge plise gi se citka = "Half something is an apple and is eaten" Now *that* looks like gobbledygook! Likewise, if {mi citka pi mu plise}, is the cardinality of {lo'i se citka plise} 0.5? Hardly. --And. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/