From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Jan 19 18:56:59 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28082 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2005 02:56:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2005 02:56:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2005 02:56:56 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CrSVD-0001zH-9S for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:56:55 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CrSUl-0001yg-Le; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:56:27 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.196]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CrSUb-0001yV-5L for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:56:17 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so82977wri for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:55:46 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=mIdWF0Zwtt67t2G5oicp0q64EJF3AVpOydxkrXmnZ+qU6UVh9lUAUI0iaj65deP9MwQZYOkVJG29Wbq3r/GxMAfjXUzzcsKuEs3FJXmcK/hZiHFbz8KPxbj/FHMLKo4Jvsc0TXGRADC9L4cbbPuiND8x0y5no6HhtBRLWid1Iic= Received: by 10.54.22.53 with SMTP id 53mr297480wrv; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.15.62 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:55:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <737b61f3050119185521094cb3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:55:46 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 9287 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Chris Capel From: Chris Capel Reply-To: pdf23ds@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] outer and inner quantifiers on "le" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23669 What's the meaning of "pimu le pano nanmu"? Is it the same as "le mu nanmu"? What's the difference between that and "pimu lei pano nanmu"? And how do you justify a particular interpretation of the semantics of "pimu le"? Does "pimu le pano nanmu" mean that each man has his legs cut off? I don't see how this interpretation could be parallel to "re le pano nanmu" meaning "two of the ten men". For it to be parallel, "re le pano nanmu" would have to mean something like "each of the ten men and his clone". The grammar says in chapter six, "saying ``pimu le nanmu'' would give us a half-portion of one [man]". Since the implicit inner quantifier in this case is "su'o", I don't see how this statement could be accurate in contexts where "nanmu" is understood to be plural. In other words, the interaction between inner and outer quantifiers seems to be a bit more mysterious to me than the interaction between, say, inner quantifiers and selbri ("lei ci nanmu cu bevri le pipno"). Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)