From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Jan 11 21:24:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8193 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 05:24:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 05:24:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 05:24:35 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1Coazi-0004k7-LA for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:24:34 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CoazH-0004je-Op; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:24:07 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:24:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Coaz5-0004j9-E8 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:23:55 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so507015wra for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:23:24 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=hOn8pG5kBrVkErRTAI7EcTaP1lQNVEBdWW2iWCAyM1qCcXnDUmDcODt3DeNwhCQqC0V8YD9Zc+uegObxwVCfJxLvnq/6OwbiDrAjc4sCrpcI3rwH/NcA984MzCbZg4+sQDdMz4DZ7RAZJOg8IZuiso5gb2q6VcC2ka2NsEo+Emc= Received: by 10.54.51.8 with SMTP id y8mr345943wry; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.15.62 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:23:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <737b61f305011121232b29e043@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:23:24 -0600 In-Reply-To: <200501110803.33217.phma@phma.hn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII References: <737b61f30501102006796a00ae@mail.gmail.com> <200501110803.33217.phma@phma.hn.org> X-archive-position: 9236 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Chris Capel From: Chris Capel Reply-To: pdf23ds@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: pronunciation with cmavo and brivla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23624 On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:03:33 -0500, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Monday 10 January 2005 23:06, Chris Capel wrote: > > The reference grammar, chapter 4, section 2, example 2.8, says that to > > pronounce "le RE NANmu", you need to say "le RE. NANmu". The pause is > > required, it says, because otherwise it could confuse someone about > > NAN being the first syllable of nanmu. But isn't this ambiguity taken > > care of by nanmu's CVC/CV form? Why is the pause necessary in > > addition? > > It isn't for two-syllable brivla. It is necessary for a lot of three-syllable > or longer brivla, such as {jbojbena} and {krataigo}. (Seems that jbojbena isn't in jbovlaste.) Aren't brivla always pronounced on the penultimate syllable, thus making a pause in those cases with brivla longer than two syllables flow much more naturally with speech than "le RE. NANmu"? (You try saying it with a glottal stop, as you would want to in normal speech--it sounds terrible.) It would seem that if it were meant to apply only to three-syllable brivla, the example was very poorly chosen. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)