From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Jan 12 04:38:23 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77383 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 12:38:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 12:38:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 12:38:22 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CohlU-00083S-DD for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 04:38:20 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cohj3-0007yX-HZ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 04:37:11 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 12 Jan 2005 04:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phma.hn.org ([216.189.113.165] helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CohgL-0007fu-Jb for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 04:33:01 -0800 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6083C84B0; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:32:27 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:32:26 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <737b61f30501102006796a00ae@mail.gmail.com> <200501110803.33217.phma@phma.hn.org> <737b61f305011121232b29e043@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <737b61f305011121232b29e043@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200501120732.26592.phma@phma.hn.org> X-archive-position: 9238 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.hn.org X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Pierre Abbat From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@phma.hn.org Subject: [lojban] Re: pronunciation with cmavo and brivla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23626 On Wednesday 12 January 2005 00:23, Chris Capel wrote: > (Seems that jbojbena isn't in jbovlaste.) It means "is a native Lojban speaker" and has been used in the phrase {lo jbojbe ba jdice}, but I don't know if anyone's decided on a place structure. As no one is born speaking a language, I coined {verclibau} for "native language". I came up with {lojbojbena} as a sound sequence which lexes as two phrases with the same meaning, but not grammatically equivalent, depending on stress and juncture. It can also be a third sequence of words {lo jbojbe na} (which is not a phrase). So the whole sentence is {lo jbojbe na lojbo jbena lo jbojbena}. > Aren't brivla always pronounced on the penultimate syllable, thus > making a pause in those cases with brivla longer than two syllables > flow much more naturally with speech than "le RE. NANmu"? (You try > saying it with a glottal stop, as you would want to in normal > speech--it sounds terrible.) It would seem that if it were meant to > apply only to three-syllable brivla, the example was very poorly > chosen. It also applies to longer brivla; the Book, for simplicity, says it applies to all brivla. Humans lex speech differently; a human hearing /LEkraTAIgo/ will think "There's no such word as {lekra} but there is such a word as {krataigo}". phma -- Mes règles mensuelles ont lieu une fois par an. -Les Perles de la médecine