From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Jan 31 15:36:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53293 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2005 23:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2005 23:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 23:36:31 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1Cvl5q-0003Bm-Ld for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:36:30 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cvl5c-0003BO-L7; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:36:16 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from web51605.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.38.210]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cvl5O-0003AM-IP for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:36:02 -0800 Received: (qmail 77541 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jan 2005 23:35:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=A8ld3r5im5kZx1iQYJZoALA3z03BitQIWLmrRMRwxKFDZaK/RvfCR4471N3L17ubnS4SZ49qD4L7nKsS2hD/3vXP3g2RaFGrR+KvE5RJSnpYQeCRdroDEi2OJlBqsTnmZy8QOo5FCfRHlUtpA2SUZ/k252hPyKFMlCiD/OqTrR4= ; Message-ID: <20050131233531.77539.qmail@web51605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.78.152.121] by web51605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:35:31 PST Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:35:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 9392 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jordimastrullenque@yahoo.com X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: jordi mas From: jordi mas Reply-To: jordimastrullenque@yahoo.com Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23771 > Le 31 janv. 05, à 10:28, xah lee a écrit : > > > natural languages don't come with a design > committee. They 'break' or > > evolve and basically nobody cares except a few > academic pundits. > Natural languages are not always that "natural". > Actually, Turkish and > Hebrew are somewhat artificial languages as they > have gone through a > major planned revision during the last century. And > an "artificial" > language like Esperanto (100 years old this year) > has become somewhat > "natural". So, the boudaries are a bit fuzzy. > My 0.00€, > Jérôme. Of course, the problem is the definition "natural". Suppose somebode says that phonetic evolution cannot be stopped. Then I point out that in language X old speakers teach new speakers to pronounce k as a front palatal and not just any palatal stop. They happen to care about such details, so the place of articulation has not changed for 14 centuries. Then you can tell me that these people are going against nature, playing Frankestein. I point out that in language Y people have spelled N-I-C-E for centuries though the pronunciation has changed and is now {nais}, and you can say that doing that is natural, or that it isn't, depending on your cultural assumptions. The word "natural" has powerful magic in it. muho mihe jordis ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250