From jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Sun Jan 09 11:04:37 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: jimc@math.ucla.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17518 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 19:04:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 19:04:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harlech.math.ucla.edu) (128.97.4.250) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 19:04:37 -0000 Received: from xena.cft.ca.us (lsanca1-ar2-4-60-045-106.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net [4.60.45.106]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Client CN "James F. Carter", Issuer "UCLA-Mathnet Root Certificate" (verified OK)) by harlech.math.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 204D3761A7 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by xena.cft.ca.us (Postfix, from userid 228) id 031EC27249; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:04:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xena.cft.ca.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F63626D3 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:04:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:04:15 -0800 (PST) Sender: jimc@xena.cft.ca.us To: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050109105912.GG4597@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: References: <20050109105912.GG4597@chain.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 128.97.4.250 From: Jim Carter Subject: Re: [lojban] Help with "beak", please. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810565 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23599 On Sun, 9 Jan 2005, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > I'm kind of stuck on a word for "beak".... > I really don't understand > what beaks are made out of, in general (if there is an "in > general"). A bird's beak is made of keratin, like jgalu (fingernails, claws or hooves). If I remember right, part of the beak is directly supported by the facial bones, while the end is freestanding. A porpoise's beak is just an elongated mouth, like a dog's or horse's snout. A human's "beak" is a metaphor for a long nose. English has specialized old-language words for lots of things, cf. lamb, foal, calf, kitten, cub, puppy... Other languages are not as nitpicky. My wife, who is Chinese, isn't here right now so I can't ask her, but I'm sure I've heard her refer to a bird's "mouth" (niao ko, I think). I think I wouldn't use "ctebi - lip" as the base word; I'd use "moklu - mouth" like in Chinese, despite the definition of "oral *cavity*", because for a bird (or for a human viewing a bird) the beak is the whole mouth, not a peripheral part around the mouth. "jgalu moklu" is tempting, but I think I'd prefer a proper translation of "snout" as in "projecting mouth". But I wasn't able to get a good gismu for "projecting". James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Email: jimc@math.ucla.edu http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc (q.v. for PGP key)