From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Sun Jan 02 15:34:49 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99092 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2005 23:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2005 23:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2005 23:34:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1ClFFH-0002PB-AV for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:34:47 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ClFEb-0002Oa-D8; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:34:05 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:34:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.153]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ClFER-0002OP-GV for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:33:55 -0800 Received: (qmail 49647 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2005 23:33:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20050102233324.49645.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.114.197.65] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:33:24 PST Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:33:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <027101c4f0f5$929c7f40$f7390751@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-archive-position: 9149 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-list: lojban-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.81.49.134 From: Jorge "Llambías" Reply-To: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Subject: [lojban] Re: Holiday Present from the BPFK: The gadri Proposal Has Been Completed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142311107 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23544 --- And Rosta wrote: > Is there somewhere I can read more about outer quantifiers of > lo/le? Outer quantifiers work in exactly the same way for every sumti: PA = PA da poi ke'a me i.e. they quantify over the referents of the sumti. The referents of {lo broda} are the things that are/do broda. No more specification than that is given. In some context, these may be each and every thing that exists in the world and does broda, in another context, it may be a single thing ("Mr Broda") or it may be the only relevant broda around, or a number of relevant brodas. A sumti can have several referents at once without this being a reference to the single group entity. When {lo broda} refers to more than one thing, it is not specified whether the things will satisfy the bridi they fill distributively or collectively. The referents of {le broda} can be more than one in the same way, without this being a reference to a single group thing. > (I'm curious about how the subtype/instance/member > distinction got handled.) When there is reference to a group, (for example {loi bakni}, and {lo gunma be lo bakni}) then you need to use {lu'a} or {lo cmima be} in order to get to the members of the group, and then quantify. A direct quantifier in this case will quantify over groups, because the referents of those sumti are the groups, not the members. Types are not handled in any special way, the referents of {lo broda} can be types of broda in a given context. When the distinction is important and not clear from context, you have to use a selbri (lo klesi be} vs {lo mupli be}, or something with the appropriate place structure if the place structure of these is too weird. {lo'e} could also eventually be used for this, but this gadri was excluded from the holiday present. mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail